Birth as Portal: How Doulas Support the Transition into Parenthood

Introduction and Welcome

Britta Bushnell: Hello folks, and welcome to transformed by birth, a podcast about the rite of passage of pregnancy, birth and new parenthood. I'm your host, Britta Bushnell, author, mythologist, childbirth educator and an all around deep diver with a side of goofball. I'm so glad you're here. Today's episode is about the rite of passage of parenthood and the doulas role. So grab your comfy beverage of choice and take us along for a walk as we explore this important topic with my friend Laurie Bregman, before we begin, we start the way we always do by lighting a candle. If you'd like to join me, please do or just take a breath as I light mine. Today's candle is acknowledging those on the sidelines, supporting the leading characters in birth.

Giving birth in today's high tech Society offers both new advancements and advanced challenges. Many ancient cultures understood that birth was a sacred passage, requiring guidance, ritual and deep support. Women often gathered around those in labor to companion them through the intensity of birth and carry some of the weight of new parenthood. Sometimes, this was done by mothers, aunties, grandmothers, elders, skilled in the unique cauldron of birth wisdom. Some were called witches, others wise women. Some were healers who supported healthy birthing, while others were there for the emotional journey of crossing the threshold to birth a baby. In many ways today, it's doulas who carry much of that wisdom forward, but today's doulas are just as likely to deeply understand the physiology of birth as they are to light candles, battery operated if in a hospital. Of course, I often like to say that birth is a foreign experience to most people. A doula is like a specialized tour guide in the unfamiliar land of labor, birth and new parenthood, they can translate unfamiliar language, help navigate the new territory and share the tricks and tips that only those well versed in the arena know about. Today's guest is very special to me. Laurie has been my friend for years, and is someone I often refer to as one of my book doulas, because she helped me when I was publishing transformed by birth. Lori is a seasoned doula with over 26 years experience. She's the author of the doula deck mama stay and the mindful mom to be. She's also the co founder of prega and serves as doula in residence at needed but what makes Lori truly unique, among other things, she's just an amazing human being, is her understanding that birth isn't just about delivering a healthy baby, it's about nurturing the mother's transformation and helping her build a solid foundation for who she's becoming. Laurie believes in what she calls a mind, body, spirit approach, bringing ancient wisdom with modern wellness. She's not just supporting you through labor, she's holding space for the entire journey into parenthood, before, during and long after birth, Lori, thank you for being here. I'm so excited to talk with you about this really sacred work that in many ways, we share.

Laurie Bregman: Yes and thanks for having me. I miss you.

Britta Bushnell: I miss you too. It's so good to even just be sitting here and getting to hear you in my ears, and we're also sitting across from each other on Zoom, and so it's just a joy to get to be with you here. So you have been supporting women through this transformation for a really long time, and you know that I like to talk about it as a rite of passage, and I'm curious, and I know you also use some of that language. So can you kind of drop us into what it means to you to have birth be a rite of passage.

Birth as Portal and Transformation

Laurie Bregman: Well, the whole journey, you know, it's like everything when you're trying to conceive, during your pregnancy, birth, things that show up are constantly showing up to help usher in that soul, you know, spirit, that of the baby you're meant to have, and different things come up. And I think there is that birth. I mean, it's just when you're in birth, especially the birth part, it can be the most transformational experience of your whole, entire life, if you are willing to, like, really drop in and go there.

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, you've, I've heard you talk about it as, like, a portal, yeah. Can you talk about that? Like, what? What do you mean when you talk about birth as a portal?

Laurie Bregman: If you've ever done plant medicine, it's very similar.

Britta Bushnell: I have heard that it's not, you're not the first one to say that.

Laurie Bregman: Yeah, it's like, and I know I have a lot of clients that do ayahuasca and all this stuff, and they're and they're like, it sounds like a plant medicine journey. I'm like, it kind of is because you go up again, you meet yourself, and you push up against different parts of yourself. Sometimes it's the ego, sometimes it's control, sometimes it's deep rooted, like fear comes like, or old programs and stories come up, and it's all coming out to be purged, because you're birthing this new part of yourself. And it's almost like that birth portal is the final, you know, sloughing off of the old before you birth the new.

Supporting Authenticity Through the Birth Journey

Britta Bushnell: As you said, you know, sloughing off and, and you ran your hands on your arms as you did that. I got a snake image, like shedding its skin image in my mind, as you you talked about that and and I'm thinking that when we when we shed parts of our skin and old slough off old skin, what's left exposed is tender. It's like really tender the skin that is baby skin, and when we're, you're you're a doula, a guide, a supporter, a mentor. How do you support these families with that tender skin through that portal, like, what? What matters to you in that,

Laurie Bregman: I think really getting to know my people. I spend a lot of time building a really solid relationship and getting to know who they are before birth, because the way you do life is the way you do birth. And I really like to support my clients in the realm of who they are, and not try to make them be something they're not so they can feel safe to let go, because I'm not there trying to, like, project all my views onto them and all these things. It's kind of like, you know, so they can be vulnerable, they can feel they can let go. They can do these things because they we built this relationship and and there is this, I don't know, I think there's this I keep there's a lot of what I keep coming up, what keeps coming up for me, and even in my Doula trainings that I do, it's all about authenticity and not trying to change those people, but like, really support them in who they are and wherever they're at

Britta Bushnell: so supporting them in their authenticity. So that sounds possibly to some listeners as, like, not rocket science, because it's like, isn't that what a doula is supposed to do? Are you saying that some people don't do that? Like, is there like, what? What makes what you're saying sort of unique and important?

Avoiding Projection and Honoring Individual Birth Choices

Laurie Bregman: Well, Britta, isn't it when you, when you there's nothing worse than when you're trying to like, when you're feeling like and even this goes on in the hospitals, I think a lot, you know, where maybe this, this person, has this very, you know, big intention of the way that she wants to give birth, and she's educated herself and planned and her partner supporting her, and she's she's excited and she's confident, and she's really spent the time, you know, feeling really empowered about it, and then she goes up against the system sometimes, and they squash the dream, and they, they're like, you know, or, you know, I've had clients that are like, Lori, I thank You. I'm so glad we educated and I really gave this a lot of thought, and I really think I would like to do a C section, and it's obviously not what I would want to do for myself, but I'm not her or the person in front of me, so it's kind of like you have to take yourself out and not project a little bit and just really look at this person in front of you and support them in the in in whatever way you can. You know, without projecting, I think there's so much projection, they're already getting project on the whole entire pregnancy. You know, it's non stop. I hear it all the time. So much projection, yes, that it's like nice to have that one person who's not going to project that just going to, like, hold space for whatever their intention is and help them find their intention be that sounding board for them.

Britta Bushnell: So helping them find their intention being a sounding board again over and over again for them and what matters to them, yeah, and, and yet, that can be challenging in a society that is projecting all over the place. Yeah, right, because, like, it's kind of like you have to weed through all of the information that's coming at somebody to find out what it is that really matters for them.

Going Deeper Than "Should" - Finding Your True Why

Laurie Bregman: Yeah, and you have a lot of, you know, stories that they've taken on, a lot of projection they've taken on, and so I think I spent a lot of time kind of, like, clearing out, kind of like, let's get to like, even when my clients want to do. You know, their intention is to do an unmedicated birth. Or, you know, I'm always like, let's talk about your reason why. And they'll be like, well, because it's just what I should do. And I'm like, No, let's go deeper.

Britta Bushnell: And should, let's not, let's not stop it. Should, right?

Laurie Bregman: Yes, you should. And like, so like, I really start going deeper into that. Why? I remember, one day, I remember working with this woman, and she was like, well, it's just what I should do. And I'm like, Well, who said you should do that? And she's like, well, you know, I read on social media and Tiktok and all this stuff and and I was like, Okay, well, like, let's get let's find your truth. And really, what happened, what we came up with? And it was a lot of going deeper, going deeper, going deeper into the Why was she looked at me and she said, Lori, I've wanted to do ever since I was young. I wanted to do give birth this way. And she said, and every there's everything I've wanted to do in my life, fear has always stopped me. And she's like, I don't want fear to stop me. I want to do this, and I want to work through this. And so we worked through it a lot. And it was one of those things. She didn't have a lot of fear in in the birth, but it that was the medicine we were working with. When I say plant medicine journey, I always say there's always some kind of a medicine in birth. And that was the medicine. It was like, were we gonna go up fear? Was that fear gonna come up? I mean, it did a couple times. She would look at me and be like, everything, I'm okay, right? I'm like, you're great. And she's like, okay, and like, but she was, you know, and we kind of gave the fear, like this voice, we did all this stuff. So there's, like, a lot of that kind of stuff. I think what we were talking about before I even came on, that doulas don't just squeeze

Britta Bushnell: hips, right? Which is a misnomer that that sometimes follows doulas around, is that it's about physical support solely,

Mind Body Spirit Support Beyond Physical Comfort

Laurie Bregman: I think I do a lot of physical support. I have a background in body work, so like, I, you know, I'm definitely, once I put my hands on my clients, they're like, Please don't take it off of me. But a lot of the work I do is emotionally and mentally, mental work. It's and

Britta Bushnell: it's way before the birth. It's way before after even, right? Yeah.

Laurie Bregman: And, I mean, I try to do as much as I can before, because it definitely makes things a lot easier for them during the birth. But sometimes things don't come up until the birth, and you've got to hold space for it. It's all, it's what I say, the mind, body, spirit, because it's all coming out at birth.

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, I love the story that you just told, where the the answer at first about why this kind of birth was because it's the birth I should do. And then you got to such a deeper place that was much, much richer about really, that desire to know a part of themselves. You know, she, she wanted to know a part of herself, that that she could do this in a different kind of way, which I imagine just opened up the doors for you to work with her in such a profoundly different way than, well, this is the way I should do it,

Laurie Bregman: yeah, and I think there is, you know, her thing was, like, I don't ever want to let fear stop me again. So I know if I can do this, and if I push myself to do this, it's a lot of pressure to put on, but, you know, but it will, it won't ever stop me again. And that was her reason why, and that was what kept her going. And so there, you know, there is this deeper work that at least you know, all doulas work differently. We all have different skills. We all have different backgrounds and gifts and ways that we like to do things and show up for our people and ourselves and our clients. 90s, and there's a doula out there for everyone, and I work differently with everyone. There's how I'd work with you would be very different than how I worked with her. Or, like, I can't tell you how I've done over 1600 births, and no two have ever been the same, and it's always a fun little like, Who is this person and who is this couple, and who, how do they do do this? And, like, how can I, you know, work in the capacity of who they are to best support them? And, you know, so it's

Britta Bushnell: like that, yeah, absolutely. And, and you and I have shared clients over the years, and, and even I'm thinking about, like, Oh, they're radically different, like, you have to, like, navigate it in even two different births with the same person. Oh, yeah, often are need to be navigated in such different ways. You mentioned that one of the things that you do is train and work with other doulas, and that there's a doula for everyone. And I think that could, Can you unpack that a little bit for us and talk about you and you, you and I were talking about this a little bit before I hit record about, like, there's, there's different doulas that offer different kinds of things. And like, if, if a parent is listening to this and going, Gosh, I really want a doula, how do I know you know what it is that I'm interested in, or what it is that I want from my doula? Like, like, speak to that, that parent, and then speak to the doulas about, kind of finding out what their flavor is.

Finding Your Doula Through Authenticity and Resonance

Laurie Bregman: So I recently launched this thing called doula your way. And it was, I feel like this is like my big passion right now, because I took these doulas on a 12 week journey of self discovery, and it wasn't just about me. I educated them, but what I really did was really pulled out and nurtured their authenticity. Because when you're putting out your authentic self and the gifts that you have to give in the way that you present them and and do it, there really is no other competition, because you're just rocking your authentic self and you're pulling in those people from a place of resonance. You know what I'm saying? Definitely. And one of the ways that I would say that, that and each one of these doulas, there was a bunch of them in class. They all were so different and had different offerings. Some were yoga teachers and blood some are Pilates teachers or health coaches or breath work facilitators. I can't then they were like, they started their minds, like their their intuition started dropping in. And they're like, I want to take a course in this. And I feel like I want to integrate this. And, you know, I think there's this linear for years, I mean, and when I took my Doula training, I would do want to say that I did it with Anna vierelle 1000 years ago. I didn't know we had roles as a doula. Nobody ever told me that I had to stay stuck in this linear, like very box. And I'm an Aquarian, so that doesn't really work with me anyway, but, you know, so it was kind of like breaking, for me, this was like, Let's break the scope of practice where we go beyond just a doula, which is, you know, staying in this little box. It's like, let's integrate our gifts and share and express your way that would you like to do it?

Britta Bushnell: And these women and that

Laurie Bregman: that's a superpower, not a liability.

Laurie Bregman: Yes, it's a superpower. I mean, I, you know, I did talk to them, and, you know, I told through storytelling, like you did and and through, you know, they would ask me questions, and you know, I would put it back on them, and they would, I'd be like, how would you like, even just teaching my teaching style, if I was doing a birth education with somebody, I don't do it with you. Do you like I would your class that I've taken? You've done it. You do it beautiful with storytelling and props, and it's so authentic, right? I just do it with talking and humor and, you know, and spirituality, blending it with mainstream, you know. And so people can planting seeds of consciousness and awareness in a mainstream way. You know, some people are they like the, you know, the projector they have the

Britta Bushnell: right with this, with the slides and everything, yeah. And for some brains, that's really what folks want, yeah.

Laurie Bregman: Can you see how people would be drawn to that? And certain people would be drawn to mine, and certain people would be drawn to the way you do it. And I think when you're picking a doula, you interview a few different people, and you notice how you feel around that person, because you have to feel good, because they are going to be holding space for you in. Most vulnerable time of your life. And, you know, and I think that's a really thing, because you're going to find the right doula by that residence. And, you know, I was really encouraging these people to put them real them. I put my my doulas out the real them out there. Otherwise, you're going to be pulling in people that are not your real vibe, not your people, not your people, and you know. And so to really stay true to them, and you know, and really see, you know what gifts they have to offer and the way that they want to structure their practices, and you know the gifts that they can integrate, and you know their special sauce that makes them them.

Britta Bushnell: And then when the parents are out doing the work of looking for somebody, they can that there is so much of a vibe check, and if Yeah, they can find them, if they're if, if doulas are being themselves in their work, whether it's on social media or even on their website, in their interview, for sure, it there. As you said before, you know it's it there's a doula for everyone so they can find which also means there's clients for everyone there is, and that's in the inverse, right? So if we're talking about the doulas too, yeah,

Laurie Bregman: yeah, and there's enough for everyone to go around, you know?

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, absolutely. So in my intro, I talked about kind of this, this, like ancient wisdom piece that often kind of rides shotgun with doulas, where there's an understanding that in in ancient times, people were never left, you know, well, never is probably too strong a word, but weren't left alone to go through birth. They were often companioned by somebody who had a secret sauce, shall we say, about birth and now, now it's in for many people, it's fallen into a place where it's maybe not their mom or their Auntie or somebody else, but it's a doula, like, what? What do you see, sort of as your this might sound kind of weird, but you're like wisdom lineage as a doula who works with who steps in and companions in this authentic way, like I know you to be a highly spiritual individual, and I imagine that you're tapping in in some ways.

Intuitive Support and Reading the Room in Birth Work

Laurie Bregman: I work really intuitively, and, you know, and a lot of that is, I get these downloads. I might, I might say something to somebody that is, I'm I'll get, like, to say something, and I'll be like, I can't say that, but then I'll say it because I just got it came out of nowhere, and I know what's intuitive and not, you know, and then it'll be just what they needed to hear, to, like, work through maybe the birth wall or to let go. So I really, really would say that one of my special gifts is the gift of intuition and really tapping into the person who I'm working with and meeting them there. I can read, read the room really well, you know. And I work really, I would say, collaborative care with, you know, trying to get the nurses, if I'm in a hospital setting, and the doctor, you know, sometimes it as a doula can be challenging. You see, you know, working in a system when you know too much, and there's, you know, and it's like, I have to keep my that's where you have to keep yourself a little bit in check, because you can't want something more for your clients than they want for themselves. And you can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink, and you have to really be like, All right, this is their journey, their path. I i will hold space for them and the choices that they're making, and that sometimes you're just like, Oh no, but then you know, yeah,

Supporting the Full Rite of Passage Not Just Labor

Britta Bushnell: absolutely, which, which also makes me think about, there's, there's a difference between supporting somebody through labor and supporting somebody through a rite of passage into a new identity. Because, like, if, if that's happening, and, you know, lead, the lead the horse to water, kind of thing, but, but you can't force them to drink. It's like in in labor. It's like you might support somebody with, you know, a physical support or a word, but helping them really transition their identity goes deep. Deeper than that. It's it's bigger, and it's like the question that you asked of of that client, that you spoke about, the why, right? The Why would you do this? But do you have other kind of ways that that you would say is different when, whether you're working with a client, or when you're talking with your doula students about, like, supporting somebody through the rite of passage as being different or more or something, than simply labor support, like, what, what? What's the difference there? How do you do it?

Laurie Bregman: A I find not everybody wants to go deep. So, yeah, yeah, I don't want to push somebody to do something that they're not wanting to do. So that's one thing. You got to be able to read your person and know when to, like, where there's an opening and where there's not, and like, that's definitely has, I would say is, is a gift that like you know, you have to really tune in and know your customer, I guess, right.

Britta Bushnell: Well, not everybody has the same distance of growth and or desire for distance of growth. Somebody's rite of passage might be itty bitty, tiny, and somebody else's might be the Grand Canyon,

Working With What Shows Up in Pregnancy

Laurie Bregman: yeah, and I do think it shows up a lot throughout the pregnancy. You know what I mean? Okay, say more about that? Well, like, you know, stuff starts coming up, whether it's like, control. Like, the other day, I was working with a client, and she was talking about how she was very controlling and like, she's, she's, you know, and we were talking about this, and I was like, well, birth is to ask you the opposite. It's going to, you know, take you she was telling me how she's a doer and she's controlling, and did it. And I was like, it's going to ask you to be the the opposite. We need to step into the feminine energy a little bit, and maybe this might be this missing piece that will shift you. And then people also don't. Some people don't want to hear that they're in a change and you because it scares them.

Britta Bushnell: Of course, changes is can be really scary for many

Laurie Bregman: of us. You what it's going to be like on the others, like, you don't know how different you're going to feel until you're in it. So you can't really, I don't feel like it's something you can plan for, because it's like everybody's transition is different. So it's kind of, I always use what's showing up in the moment as to work with, if they're into going there, like my client the other day. So we worked on her control and without trying to change her, because this is who she is. But how can we when that if that resistance or that control comes up, what can we integrate, to soften, to flow more, to surrender, to let go, to, you know, to trust. And she had these mantras that she because she already knows it's a thing. And so when she feels herself looping in that control, she gets into this space, and she says these things. And I was like, Can you write these down? These are amazing, like you didn't

Britta Bushnell: come up with it, your client came up with it, which I think is so critical, because it's very different. I mean, if you had said, I know I have some mantras for you, she might have been like, yeah, I don't want that. No, thank you.

Client-Generated Solutions and Personal Agency

Laurie Bregman: These things that were like, I My mouth was on the floor. I was like, Can you write these out for me? Because I'm going to use these like in birth. And so she's like, then she started thinking, you know, I'm going to do a vision board and and and with these mantras on it and visuals, and I'm going to look at it every day and really put myself and embody this energy. And in birth when I'm trying to, like, I'm going to just sit there and remind, you know, not only will you and my partner do it, but I'm going to really try to just, you know, try to drop into that space, because I think it would be really good for me, and I think it'll help me on the other side, that was her coming up with it,

Britta Bushnell: not me, yeah, yeah, which is so important, like, the agency piece when, when we come up for something ourselves, the power of it skyrockets, right?

Laurie Bregman: Yeah? Like this little like, ding, ding goes off in your mind. You know, I was just talking with somebody before you who I'm doing this panel for fertility, and I used to teach this fertility yoga. And I would take people into their body and really do a lot of chakra opening and yin and restorative yoga. And first I would do, like, a life coaching session with them, where we talk, and then I move it through their body. And all of a sudden their body would start talking, and they would see the block. Sometimes there would be this massive story that, you know, that they were carrying around with them. And it wasn't something I would say to them, but they got it. And they were like, open their eyes. They're like, Oh my God. And then we'd work with that and just be like, Okay, let's take this, and what can we do with this? And then we do coaching on it, and give, I give her some stuff just to do, to, like, go deeper into that and maybe help move it. And then we get pregnant. So it was, you know, it's kind of that thing. I think, instead of telling everybody what to do is helping them

Britta Bushnell: find it for themselves too well. And I love that, when this client that you were just talking about spoke about it, you also said it would help her all the way through and to the other side. Yeah, like that. It the losing of control isn't going to end when the baby comes out, right? I mean, the baby's going to come out and and that that baby is is going to continue to test our understanding of control,

Identifying What's Showing Up as Preparation for Parenthood

Laurie Bregman: yeah, in my mindful mom to be class, the first class I leave everybody with the when we do this, like meet and greet and community like thing, I asked them, what's showing up for you right now? Because what's showing up for you right now is going to be the very thing you need to anchor in and work through for this, for this next chapter.

Britta Bushnell: So when you say what's showing up for you, tell me. Tell me more what you mean, like, what's challenging,

Laurie Bregman: what you know, just like it could be, I have I'm not trusting. I've really stuff that I need to get on the same page with my partner. I'm really impatient patient's a big one you need for parenting. So like at the end, when your due date rolls around and your baby's not here, which it usually isn't, and they start getting impatience, and then they do things to maybe get induced, and then it's a domino effect. And then they learn patience on the other end. Did you know I'm saying it's like, yes, okay, spot, what's showing up for you, whether

Britta Bushnell: and so, so these folks are pregnant when they're in this this class and and you're asking them to notice what's coming up, what they're chewing on, what what's irritating them, and using it as an opportunity to look, kind of, with a microscope or a telescope down the line, at what's going to come that might be challenging,

Learning to Quiet the Noise and Find Your Truth

Laurie Bregman: like, it doesn't always like, irritating. It could be messages they're getting. It could be boundaries, like, maybe their mother in law is like, or the projections, and they're not, they're, they're, they're taking on everybody's stuff and they're, they're like, not knowing how to like, quiet the noise and find their own truth. And you know, I worked with this woman the other day, who I'm doing a surrogate for, and you know, she was trying to find a doctor, and she's like, this person wants me to see this person. This person wants me to see this person. And I was like, Wait, who do you want to say? She was like, Well, who do you work with better? I'm like, I love them both. Like, who do you want to say? And she's like, nobody's really asked me that. And I'm like, Well, if you're going to work with me, I'm going to ask you that a lot, and I'm going to help you find your truth. Because this, you're going to need this. Nobody else is raising your child. It's going to be you, and you've got to learn to feel out what feels right for you, because you don't, you know, I mean, it's like, this is going to help you on the other side. So it's already showing up.

Britta Bushnell: It's already showing up and giving opportunities to work and grow and expand and address it now, before, before even, yeah, Heading, Heading into a place where it, because it will very likely continue,

Laurie Bregman: yeah, and sometimes you'll work through part of it, and then maybe at birth, and another part will come up, and then afterwards. And then, do you know what I mean, or, yeah, might have nothing, um, which you know. And also some people don't even, people were just like, I feel great. Everything's good, and that's amazing. And, you know, and they have none of that, but it's, it's there if people want it. It's something that they can tap into if, if it happens to come up. I truly believe it's to help you on the other

Birth as Universal Portal for Growth and Evolution

Britta Bushnell: side well. And it speaks to how much of a rite of passage this journey is of really changing and transforming the identity that we're going through, that that it's like part of the experience of that is sort of like the universe popping popping things up for us to take a look at and say here, what do you want to do with this? If you want to do anything. And by the

Laurie Bregman: way, it doesn't have to be in pregnancy. It's like, I'm going through that in life. It's kind of like, you know, I'm going to a different level in my career, in my life. And it's kind of like, all right, you know, like showing up and, you know, I know it's helping me get there, you know,

Britta Bushnell: absolutely, yeah, and, and when we're in the sort of cauldron, or the crucible of massive change, there's added pressure and heat that helps create that alchemical change that really shifts us, yeah, and so when, when, when there's added heat, when there's added pressure, like a major life transition,

Laurie Bregman: like birth, yeah, major

Britta Bushnell: life transition. There really, we really get so many opportunities to to address that,

Laurie Bregman: and it's going to come up sometime in your life,

Britta Bushnell: absolutely, whether, whether you go through birth or not, you're going to have a rite of passage.

Laurie Bregman: Yes, likely more than one. Yes.

Laurie Bregman: You know, being involved. Evolving, yeah,

Deepening vs Climbing in Personal Growth

Britta Bushnell: I hope so yeah. I mean, that's my sincere hope. Is that we continue to grow, we continue to evolve, we, you know, or deepen. Sometimes I think that the idea of the preference for growth kind of has that that more like capitalistic climb, like go up, and sometimes I think the work is actually about deepening, dropping down, dropping in, mulching, rather than just ambition, climbing growth like I've, I've had to start thinking about that in a slightly different way. To think about the deepening, not just the advancing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurie Bregman: Like this, this making this space and slowing down and like, instead of forcing like flowing and seeing what drops in, you know? Because, like, I've created so much space in my life right now that, like, I'll be going for a walk with my dogs, or Pilates and driving, and all sudden I'm getting this download for something that, like a book idea that I would never have thought. You know, it did come from me forcing it, or it just kind of like was, like, this would be kind of fun to write about this. And I'm just going to start playing around and writing about this and seeing what comes from it, without it having to be a book, or, yeah, you know,

Force vs Flow in Labor and Birth

Britta Bushnell: I love that, and it's actually making me think of the journey through labor and into new parenthood as well, that dance between force and flow. Boy, does it come up? How do you work with force and flow in your work with families?

Laurie Bregman: I mean, I'd say, like I did with that woman the other day, with control, yeah, that there's force and control. I wrote a post about this on my Instagram the other day about force, like, power, like, what is it? Flow versus force? You know, I think there's different ways to It depends who I'm working with,

Britta Bushnell: how I work, yeah, which I think is such a valid and powerful answer, actually.

Laurie Bregman: And also, some people are really good at flowing, and they're not good at forcing, do you know? I mean, so maybe that might be something where, you know, I'm working with this client whose doctor is like, you know, she doesn't know what she wants to do. She's just gonna do what the doctor says. And I'm like, Well, you know, that's fine if that's what you want to do. But like, let me educate you. And you know, it's always good. You know, you know that you don't want everyone this is your body, your baby. You don't want to put this in somebody else's hands. If you know that feels right for you, and if you they don't, they're not standing strong in their conviction.

Britta Bushnell: There's so they've got really good flow, is what you're saying, but not necessarily that, that other energy, right?

Laurie Bregman: So it's kind of, you know, yeah, it's interesting. It's fun. Because everybody I work with is like a little puzzle piece that I'm kind of like, okay, new, new thing. Let's see how I can support them. And, you know, there's so many different ways doulas support that it drives me nuts, like you said, like, and then I have people say that, Oh, doulas only do home births. And I'm like, Yes, I do a lot of home births, but I I can't tell you how many doctors refer me in the city. And. And because I feel like, if you're birthing in the hospital, you really need a doula.

Debunking Doula Myths Hospital Births and Epidurals

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, it what for me, when I was I'm not a predomin, you know, I'm not predominantly a doula. These days, I haven't had, haven't been to a birth in 18 months, but when I was doing more doula work, I it took me years before I did a home birth, because I was mostly doing hospital births. That didn't mean that they were always with OBS. Sometimes they were they were midwives in the hospital, especially back then, because we had a lot more midwives in hospitals around Los Angeles back 20 years ago, than than I think we do right now. But, but yeah, I it took me a long time before I was invited and hired to be supportive at home birth. So yeah, that is, that is a misnomer. What are some other misnomers around doulas? I bet you

Laurie Bregman: know a bunch have an epidural that you don't need a doula.

Britta Bushnell: If you have an epidural, you don't need a doula. Okay, unpack that one What? What do you think about that birth

Laurie Bregman: is not like the movies. There's usually a lot of laboring that happens before somebody gets it an epidural, and most of my clients prefer to labor at home. Get as far as they can. And if they want to get an epidural, go to the hospital and get one when they're, like, around five six centimeters, you know, where their contractions are, like, three to four minutes apart, and happening, yeah, they want, and I've explained at that point the hormones of labor have kicked in. You know, the baby's a little bit more engaged in the pelvis. If you get the epidural, it might not if it slows down you and you need a little Pitocin, it's not going to be you're not going to be on it forever. You've worked through the longest part, like all these things. So they they really want that, and they love that part of labor

Britta Bushnell: and at home and but that also can take a long time. It can take a long time getting to five six centimeters, and knowing when to go to the hospital is another piece that

Laurie Bregman: is and then look at the epidural like you want to be withdrawal, like there's turning them from side to side and keeping the you know, the movement going so the baby can rotate into the pelvis. And sometimes, you know, there's three nurses for one person, not to mention, even with an epidural, stuff comes up, you know, fear comes up like partners. Sometimes stuff comes up for them, yeah, sometimes babies take big dips in the heart, and the whole hospital runs in, and they're they're terrified and or they're trying to do something, and they don't even know their options. And, you know, I, I've educated them how to ask questions, ask for some time to think about something, and then we'll have a conversation where I'll be like, this is the pros. The cons is your options. I'll always give you your options. How did that make you feel? What feels right for you guys? And then they'll say, I think this, this feels right for me. And I'll be like, great. So we support I support them in the choice. I'm a sounding board, and because I usually work very close in a lot of these hospitals, and I'm like, I definitely am. I don't I always encourage my clients to advocate for themselves, because I think there's something very powerful in that about using your voice, but

Advocacy as Initiation Into Parenthood

Britta Bushnell: as actually as part of the rite of passage into parenthood. Yes, is, is, how do you advocate for yourself and your child? Because you're going to be doing that for a long

Laurie Bregman: initiation into parenthood, absolutely.

Laurie Bregman: But there are times where maybe my clients in the shower, and she's deep in transition, and she doesn't want to talk, and she doesn't, you know, and it's like the nurses will come to me, and then the partners in it with her, so I don't want to, like, you know, say anything, and then the nurses will come to me and they'll be like, you know, do you think she's going to want because they know that I they also know that I help people start with me when they're six weeks pregnant, if not, you know when they pee on the stick and get pregnant. So it's like, I built really deep relationships

Britta Bushnell: with my you've, you've had a long relationship with them by that point. And the

Laurie Bregman: nurses, what's great at the hospitals that I work at know that about me so they know that. Like, you know, I'm not projecting. This is what I think everybody should be doing. It's literally speaking for what they want. If they're incapable of doing that at that moment in time, you know, yeah, yeah.

Britta Bushnell: So you've you, you're able to speak to what it is that they have already told you. And, yeah, create, create some of that

Laurie Bregman: holding space.

Laurie Bregman: Yeah, and you know it is. It's amazing to me, because I can't tell you how many times people have said, My doctor said I don't need a doula, because I am, I'm getting an epidural. And I was like, you know, but I have a lot of fear. This is what they'll say in the dole. And I have so much fear. I'm so scared. I just like, I really want somebody there to be there for me. My my partner, is just not. He's great in a lot of different ways, but just not that way.

Supporting Partners Through Birth

Britta Bushnell: And yeah, which is, says nothing about who they are as a human or a partner, but it just may not be. I think it can be really powerful for someone to know where the boundaries are and what helps what helps them and what doesn't help them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And sorry, there's a my gardeners just popped in behind. So Chris cut this part. They're, they're, you can't hear anything. It's so loud and and distracting me, because I'm like, they're right here. Okay, good. So I'll pop back in, because he was just literally blowing the windows

Laurie Bregman: right here. I seriously cannot hear anything

Britta Bushnell: that's unbelievable. The what zoom can do these days, it's gotten so much better. So you Yeah, speaking about about partners. One of the we were kind of unpacking some of those things that people don't understand about doulas, or the or misconceptions about doulas. One of the ones that I know and see and hear about a lot is that the doula is for the laboring person, laboring mom only, yeah, no, no, yeah, what? What's your relationship with partners?

Doulas Facilitate Connection Between Partners

Laurie Bregman: A I always tell them this is really important that people like because I think there's some partners that feel that well, if, if you have a, if we have a doula, what am I going

Britta Bushnell: to do, right? And that, yeah, Ulis, will

Laurie Bregman: we, I have chills saying this will never get in the way of a partner, if anything, will facilitate that connection, because labor is just going to work better with the two of you connected in the realm of which they're comfortable with. And some some partners are really squeamish. Some partners are I've had people like, where I'm, you know, I'm watching their face go white, the partner's face go white, and I'm rubbing their back, going, are you okay? Do you want to sit down like, you know, or a lot of times it's just like, they're like, sitting there like this, and I'm like, she's they'll be like, is she okay? Great. She's doing great.

Britta Bushnell: You know what? I mean, each is an important role, because they're having a baby too, and it can be big and emotional and challenging and physically exhausting for partners.

Laurie Bregman: Oh, it's so hard to watch somebody you love. I tell them this too. It's so hard to watch somebody you love. Would you perceive them to be in pain and you want to fix it, and there's nothing to fix, because she's not broken, you know, and all you can do is really love her. And sometimes, you know, they'll, they'll like, look at me, and they'll be like, I'm just go sit. I'll see the like, the birthing is birthing. Like, kept, keep looking over at them, and I'll be like, Hey, why don't you go over and just like, sit with her and hold her hands and just whisper in their ear and say, like, just tell her that you're so proud of her and you love her. And they'll do it. They're like, the woman will start crying and saying, Thank you. That makes me and

Britta Bushnell: when those tears start coming, the oxytocin starts flowing.

Doulas as Essential Not Luxury in Today's Birth System

Laurie Bregman: So it's like, I mean, I feel like doulas are not just a luxury. I mean, I feel like that. It's today's world, especially with the system the way it is. And more and more women are more and more birthing. People are waking up to they want to take back their power. They want to, you know, have a different experience. They don't want to be everybody doesn't want to be induced. Some people do, and that's fine. And some people, you know, whatever somebody wants to do, but a lot of people really are wanting to, like, feel and trust their body and and, you know, have this really sacred experience, and it's a constant up against the system, and it's nice when you're working with a doula who knows how to navigate that system.

Building Your Care Team and Knowing Your Options

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, you and I had an exchange, I don't know, several years ago. I think it was, was during quarantine days of the pandemic. Where something was happening, and there was a question about advocacy and doulas. And I had just been up with my mom after she had broken her legs, and even during a quarantine time, I was welcomed into the hospital as her advocate because she was in a wheelchair, she was elderly, you know, all these things, and there was such an understanding of my role as her medical advocate. And yet, there's sometimes this pushback that doulas can't advocate, right?

Laurie Bregman: Yeah, like I said before, I think it's very empowering when you can have your clients do it. And there's a place I also tell my clients like I'm not going to be fighting with your doctor, like I really have them, when I prep them for birth, teach them how to ask the right questions, how to talk to them, get on the same page way before birth happens. So there isn't that fight to tune into their intuition, to put a team together that is supportive of their intentions. I think that is really important because, you know, there's a, there's a lot of doctors out there that do the bait and switch, where they're like, Oh yeah, I support that. And at the end, it's, it's a different ball game. And us doulas, we really do know who to like, go to, and who to run from, and just like, there's a doula out there for everyone, I do believe there's a care provider out there for everyone. And I'm really good at matching like my intention is not. I don't get kickbacks. I don't do anything like that. I want my people, or even people that I don't even know, that come to me, write to me on Instagram or something, I want them to get the right kind of even if I'd never met them, to get the right kind of care, because it's so important. I would say that's probably one of the most important thing, is getting your care team in order. You know, I you when people spend so much time and energy on a wedding and the pictures and the flowers and the dress and the cake and the food and all the stuff, and they'll have great memories and great photos, but birth, they don't think about this stuff, and they'll never have that day again. It'll stay with them for the rest of their life, how they were treated, heard, respected, cared for and supported, and also it'll imprint their baby, because how the babies come into the world matter and how they're treated. It's the first impression they have of the world, and a lot more thought needs to go into the birth, yeah.

Britta Bushnell: And as you're saying that, though, my heart breaks a little bit, because not everybody has options. No, they don't. And that's, you know, a systemic so there's the there's the individual, the part that the individual can do and influence and and tackle, and then there's the system that we work within, and it can be hard, because sometimes we don't some people don't have choice of provider, no.

Education and Informed Consent When Options Are Limited

Laurie Bregman: And I mean, if you don't have choice, you it's like the initiation is education to educate yourself. Nowadays, you can find anything on YouTube, you know, it's at your fingertips, anywhere to get educated.

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, and doulas. There's a lot of places where doulas can work from or be available. Community Based. Doulas and, yeah, pro bono, low cost, yeah,

Laurie Bregman: so I think it's that's something too like, even if you're you don't have choice, you can educate and know your options. I think that is so important to know your options, to know about informed consent, to know how to ask the right questions, to know your rights. These are all really important things, because this is you're not just doing it for you. You're doing it for your baby too.

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, yeah. And partners can play a role in that as well. Huge, big, big time being able to speak and engage, especially if they're coming from a place of understanding and education. And I back to the piece we were just saying about partners. I think it's so valuable for partners to have somebody like you that they can lean on and run things by and ask, you know, the example that you gave of, Is this okay? Right? That that getting that reassurance, because this is a huge event for for the whole family,

Laurie Bregman: yeah, that's what I think I've been asked the most in birth by the partners, is she okay? Is this normal? Is this normal? Yeah, or like, how long when's this gonna be? When is the baby gonna be born? Like, your baby's the only one who knows when the baby's gonna

Britta Bushnell: I know. I mean, the crystal ball desire is strong for some of us. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I'm at a birth and my husband's like, how much longer I'm like, I don't have that crystal ball where he's wondering about me coming back to him. Laurie, it's always so wonderful to get to talk with you, and it's been too long since we've sat on your couch and had tea and pet the dogs. We need to make sure that happens soon, or hike when

Laurie Bregman: it gets cooler, or

Britta Bushnell: go for a hike. Yes, that's, that's, yes, we, we've, we've got to do that. You are one of the most generous hearted people I know. The way that you showed up for me and helped me through the publishing process when I was like, What is this maze that I'm going through here? Was was just something that I'm forever grateful for. And you were so supportive and so generous with your support, I'm I'm just honored to know you.

Laurie Bregman: I'm honored to know you and your book is, I have there's like the top one of the top three books that I make, not make, but I suggest every one of my clients read, because I think it's such a powerful book, and it really opens them up to another way of looking at birth.

Laurie's Offerings and How to Connect

Britta Bushnell: Thank you. See the generosity that you have continues. You just are so supportive. Oh, thank you. So where can folks find you? Learn more about these offerings. Tell us about your offerings you've got. I mean, I will put them in the show notes too, but, but what do you want to speak to right now? You?

Laurie Bregman: Lori bregman.com, is my website where all the things are listed. My Instagram is L, Brady at L, b, r, E, G, G, y, I by two offering, my couple different offerings. First of all is my mindful mom to be it's I launched it about four times a year. It's the first parts, all mindful practices, nutrition, self care. Second parts, all birth prep. Birth parts, all postpartum prep. I have experts. I'd love to have you on. I have tons of experts. Come on. You know, they get emails jam packed with information, WhatsApp, group chat. It's a really great, like, journey. Like, it just really, it's very all like, you get a lot from it. I love it, and that's for pregnancy. The other one is doula, your way, it's for aspiring doulas and doulas that want to really just take their practice to a new level. The first part, we really look at the authentic each individuals and authenticity, and I really pull out their special gifts, and we talk about their, you know, their their values and their mission and just the reason why they want to do this, and get deep into it. The second part, I teach them a lot about birth and different tips and tricks I've learned along the way. And then the third part's a lot about postpartum. Again, I have tons of experts that come on again. I want you to have come on the next one. And it's, it's, it's, they get emails with, it's like, I think I had 200 pages of emails for content, for the emails I send out every week where it's and these, it's,

Britta Bushnell: again, the generosity, I'm telling you, folks, Lori is so generous. So any of her programs, what am I

Laurie Bregman: this information? It's to share to help others, right? And the other thing I love is that it's not just like a lot of the doulas, when I got asked their feedback, they're like, it's not just it wasn't just about my practice. It was a journey into the self, and they were transformed by the course. So it's 12 weeks, and then I do this virtual which I'm loving. I work with people all over the world. It's a virtual pregnancy coaching and doula program. That I do one on one with people, and I tailor make it so, you know, we do all the birth prep. They have access to me there for the birth via zoom, via text, via call, whatever they need. And I also help them with the transition, with the transformation that we were talking about we work on, like, the stuff that's coming up, or, you know, fears that they have, or, or, you know, just, it's very easy to pinpoint once I'm working with somebody, yeah, open to it, you know. So it's like they get the mind, body, spirit support and access to me. All the time with any questions, text, anything. So those are the three like things that. And I have in person doula too, but yes,

Britta Bushnell: but that requires you being in a particular place, and we've got listeners all over. So I love that you were sharing the things that are accessible from from anywhere, in different ways. All right, so Laurie, I like to close my episodes with one question, and that's, what's one thing you feel really passionate about that you want new or expectant parents to see, hear, feel or know during this profound period of their lives? Like if you had to boil it down to one thing, what would you really want them to know?

Closing Wisdom - Quieting the Noise and Finding Your Truth

Laurie Bregman: I would say to what just came up for me was to really like quiet, the noise around them, to watch the projections and that they have everything they need within themselves and to really start there, and, you know, follow their truth and don't get caught up in what they think they should do or what is being projected upon them. Because nobody's birthing their baby, nobody's raising their baby, they're the ones that are and, you know, and I like personally, I trust them. I trust their body. I trust birth. I trust the process. So, you know, and to really like again, going within to ask the questions, not seek without as much, or let others get in, in there,

Britta Bushnell: yeah, that it's that. It's to check in within themselves, in their own, ask the question within, yeah, I love that. Thank you, Lori, thank you for being here. I'm so grateful to have you. And thank you listeners for sharing this time with us. If something shared today impacted supported or moved you, please share this episode with a friend. I produced this podcast myself, and your support makes it possible to show a little love for the podcast and these conversations. Please follow rate and review. If you'd like to continue the conversation, please join us on Instagram at transformed by birth. I look forward to being with you again on the next episode of transformed by birth. Now let's gather what we want to take away from this episode. I've got my candle in hand. We're going to take an inhale draw in a nugget of wisdom from our conversation with Lori that stuck with you that you want to hold on to, and then, on the exhale, I'll blow out the candle. Until next time bye. Friends. You.