Introduction and Welcome

Transformed by Birth Podcast: Learning to Parent a New Baby with Brandi Jordan

Introduction: Welcome to Transformed by Birth

Britta Bushnell (Host): Hello folks, and welcome to Transformed by Birth, a podcast about the rite of passage of pregnancy, birth and new parenthood. I'm your host, Britta Bushnell, author, mythologist, childbirth educator and all around deep diver with a side of goofball. I'm so glad you're here.

Today's episode is all about learning to parent a new baby. So grab your cup of tea this morning - it's a matcha for me - or take us along for a walk as we journey into new parenthood. Before we begin, we start the way we always do by lighting a candle. If you want to join me, please do or just take a breath as I light mine. Today's candle is for new parents and the babies they're caring for.

The Dual Journey: Learning vs. Becoming a Parent

I remember the first few months of motherhood a minimum of two separate things were simultaneously taking place. I was learning to parent and I was becoming a parent. That's not to mention the healing in the midst of little sleep. That's a great combo. Thanks nature for that one. But I was also super lucky, because I had family around me to offer support, a super involved partner and a fair bit of experience with babies as the older sister to six younger siblings and a baby development student and teacher all through college. But still, this period was hard, and it's hard for a lot of parents, and that's where today's guest comes in.

Meet Expert Guest: Brandi Jordan

Brandi Jordan has been helping new families grow, adjust and find balance for almost two decades. She is a Board Certified Lactation Consultant, pediatric sleep specialist, newborn care specialist and a postpartum doula serving families around the world, including several celebrities. She also opened a pregnancy and postpartum center in Los Angeles called the Cradle Company in 2009 and founded the National Association of Birth Workers of Color in 2018. She is one of the go-to business coaches for many professionals in this field. When I need business support, Brandi is one of the people I reach out to.

I'm not sure when I first met Brandi, but she's been in my network for years, and we've even shared some clients too. So I get to hear how amazing she is directly from the families she served. Basically, Brandi is kind of a badass in the newborn and new family profession, and I'm honored to share our conversation with you. So welcome Brandi, and thank you for joining us.

Brandi: Thank you for having me. I love that I'm feeling like I have to live up to this expectation. You gave me such a great intro.

Britta: Oh yeah, you are a badass. Come on, you know? And one of the things I love about you is that you don't shy away from saying, "Yeah, you know what? We need to step into our power, into our knowing." And I just love that about you.

Understanding the Difference: Learning vs. Becoming

So I mentioned in the intro that as I was a new mom navigating new parenthood, I was both learning how to be a parent, like how to do the thing called parenting, but also transforming my identity to being a mom. And I'm curious what your take is on that, as somebody who works in that period of time, and with that population in particular, do you see them as different but intertwined, like I do, or something else? Talk to me about that.

Brandi: Yes, I do. It's such an interesting paradigm that I realize, and probably till I was about 10 years into this profession. So you probably know this, but I started really young doing this. This is my 25th year as a doula. And so I was probably about 20 when I started, and for the first eight years, I did this before I had my own child. And I started off as a birth doula, and I quickly learned, being in the home, that my gift was meant to be in postpartum. I just understood what the emotional piece was, the physical piece, and then I had my own child.

The Reality Check: Professional Knowledge vs. Personal Experience

I'm about 10 years into doing the work, and I myself, had learned a lot about learning to be a parent doing this work, but when I had my own I realized there was something different to becoming a parent. Theoretically, practice wise, at this point, I probably had worked with 200 families by the time I had my own, and so I understood how tired people were. I understood the dynamics change that happened in relationships, but when I was actually in it and doing it for the first time, I realized that although I had this exoskeleton of what I thought it was, being in it let me realize the depth that I couldn't really see happening because I was in that learning phase. I hadn't become the parent yet.

And so being able to see it's not just about being tired. Yes, you're tired. You haven't slept, your baby's getting up every two hours. But there was an emotional tiredness. There was no way to actually explain that before, because I didn't understand it, because I was still in that learning phase.

Creating Your Family Manifesto

And I think that's what happens with the clients that we work with - they go to all the classes. They're doing things right, they read the books, they listen to great podcasts like yours, and they're learning what they want to create in their new family life. I think a lot of people are unlearning what they don't want to bring from their families of origin. And so there's that. And we both also studied child development. And one of the things that I had a teacher said one time she was like, "Everyone's been to a parenting class, and that was their childhood."

That is both the good news and the bad news. You and your spouse, whoever that might be, went to different parenting classes, and so you have to merge those two parenting classes to create your own new shared family, this new family idea of what it means to parent your children in a way that aligns with your values, your legacy, what you want that to be. And part of that is learning to let go of what you thought it was supposed to look like and what it actually is. And that's where you start to really get into that phase of, you know, I thought I was going to be making these four course meals every day for my infant. And what was important at the end of the day is that we, once a day, sat around the table and talked to each other and spent quality time with my partner and had coffee every morning. That kind of thing is what becomes important. So I think it's the shedding of what we think it's supposed to be. When you become a parent, you realize what is is actually the thing that's the most special.

Discovering What Really Matters

Britta: Yes, I sometimes make the joke that you are the best parent you'll ever be before you have children.

Brandi: Exactly.

Britta: That was amazing, like those four course meals that you thought you might be. And yet, I think that some of the shedding of that is actually really important part of the journey. And as you said that discovering what it is that's really important and showing up for that. So for you, it was that dinner, showing up and having that meal, probably among a million other things that were important and really being in that place of, "Okay, what does matter? And how do I blend that if you're in a partnership with what also matters to your partner," because that piece is really tricky, too. As you said, you've gone to different parenting schools.

Brandi: Exactly, and then you find out what is your shared vision for your children and your family, and what you prioritize. And some of our things can be different, and that's okay too. We definitely have some different ways that we parent, or what's important to us as parents. I think we've learned for that to be okay as well. And I think that every family has to do the work. I kind of call it your family manifesto - what is important to you, what are the things you hold most dear?

Building Your Family's Core Values

And for us, it's eating around the table with each other, traveling the world with each other. We really prioritize travel and experiences over things and just in general, remembering the people around us that are important to us, being thoughtful about family and friends, writing the thank you card, calling them on their birthday, FaceTiming with the whole family, extended family as well on holidays. That is our own personal family manifesto, the things we find important. And the other things are important, but they maybe go down on the list. If that bed doesn't get made today, it's not the biggest thing if we can accomplish those other things.

Britta: So you got clear on what really matters, and kept pointing your family boat in that direction, rather than getting too sidetracked on the stuff that actually doesn't support those values.

Navigating Social Media and Parenting "Shoulds"

Brandi: Exactly. There's a lot of, particularly now with social media, there's a lot of shoulds. "You should be doing it this way, and so and so only feeds her kids this and they don't use any plastic in their home." There's a whole list of things that we should be doing as parents, and I can imagine, particularly for parents who are just starting their journey now, it's confusing. It is overwhelming, because you just want to be a great parent, and you're getting all these messages that if you don't do this checklist of 100 things, that you're not doing it right, you're not living up to the level you should be.

And I think when you create your own list of five to 10 things, you can start to shut out those voices that are saying that "No, you should be doing this," because we look back to, "How does that support X for us?" If we really love to travel, for example, we have a lot of friends who are very involved in their kids academic track. And obviously, I want my kids to learn. I want them to do well, but I couldn't be so focused on us applying to 25 different preschools, because for us, maybe we're living in LA, maybe we're living in France and we're in Asia, and so that had to be prioritized in our family. And so while I love education, I love school, and I want my kids to love it, it hasn't, for our family, been the be all, end all of what we feel is the best thing for our children when it comes to prioritizing. We probably wouldn't move to a city just for a school like some people would, and if that's their value, that's okay, and they should do that, and they make decisions for that, but it's been clear for us, because we're clear on what our values are.

The Simple Test: Does This Bring You Calm?

Britta: Love that. So when you work with a new family, and as you say right now, it's really particularly challenging, because all of these shoulds are coming at us from social media from all over the place, how do you help families and professionals who help families in that really tender phase of time - that new parent time - how do you help them in the face of those shoulds to identify what really matters to them?

Brandi: Here's the easiest rubric. So I always just say this thing that calm is contagious. The things that we really are meant to do and that feel good to our spirit make us feel calm. Usually, when you're feeling a lot of anxiety about something, you're feeling very overwhelmed, it's because you put yourself under this idea that you're supposed to do something a certain way. It doesn't mean we're never going to have friction in our lives, or we're never going to be overwhelmed about something. But in general, for example, where my kids go to school, where I buy a house, if I use this stroller or that stroller, if I sign up to this mommy and me or that mommy and me, it shouldn't cause a level of overwhelm, anxiety that makes you start to question, "Are you doing things right? Are you a good parent?"

Reconnecting with Your Internal Compass

The decisions that you're making, the people that you're bringing into your life, the classes, the friends, all those things should be bringing you ease and more comfort and more calm. And so I will often check in with my parents I'm working with, or professionals when they're struggling with "I know I should be doing this, because so and so said X," I was like, "How do you feel about that? What you're doing right now? Did that feel calmer for you?"

My job really is to help calm people's nervous systems. I would say, particularly in the past 10 years, as we've had a lot more social media, I've seen postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety really skyrocket. I don't think I ever saw postpartum anxiety in my first 10 years doing this work back in 2000 and I see it very often now. I think it's because there's so much coming at people.

And so what I really work with clients is to start to figure out how to reconnect with their internal compass. Because that's what's happening with social media - it's disconnecting us from what we know to be right for ourselves, because this person with all these followers said, "I should be doing X. They're an expert. They've done this so many times. Of course, they know more than me. I've only been a parent two days."

You Are Perfectly Matched to Your Child

And my job, and I think everyone who does our work, our job, is to help reconnect people to their own compass, reconnect them to the idea that they are so perfectly suited and matched to parent the child however they came to them, whether it's through therapy, through your body, through adoption. I personally believe that our children pick us regardless of how they came to us, and so knowing that flaws and all you are perfectly matched to take care of this child and the more we can connect people to "Does that feel good? Doesn't that feel good. That person makes me feel really anxious, that doctor doesn't make me feel confident. They make me feel like I don't know anything." Start paying attention to that and demanding that we listen to ourselves, because it's one of the greatest gifts we can give to our children as well.

Working Yourself Out of a Job: The Expert's Paradox

Britta: Oh yes, I love that. And in this expert culture, where there's experts everywhere, I mean, you and I are both considered experts in our field, and yet that doesn't mean that we have the answer for our clients.

Brandi: No, we have a lot of different ideas that they can use. The joy of this work for me is really coming to someone who maybe is like, "I'm not really sure, Brandi, you're the expert. Tell me," to them being like, "You know what? Actually, this feels good for me," not that what you said. They don't want my opinion. They have their own. That feels great to me.

And I think one of the things that I say this to all my clients, that they want to be aware of, is that anyone who's doing what I do or what you do should be working ourselves out of a job. If you're with someone, they come to your childbirth education class. They do your digital course, they're listening to it. At the end of it, you want them to feel empowered, like, "I'm ready for this. I got this." Same thing with postpartum. If I'm with a client or working with them for a month, or three months or six months, at the end, I want them to feel like "Yes, we have this bond and connection," they feel like, "Oh my god, this is so amazing. We could be together all the time." But they also feel like they're ready. They know what to do. They feel confident, and that's what people should be bringing to them, bringing it back to them.

You're the Expert on Your Baby

I never want them to feel that I'm all knowing and I know more. I know a lot about babies, but I always tell them they're the expert on their baby, and our job is to meld our two expertises together so that you really start to develop that family manifesto that feels good for you. And so when I ask, "Well, what would you do, Brandi," I was like, "Well, I can't really tell you what you would do, because I can't be you. Here's what I did with my own children, and this is why. But these are some things you can consider why that might not work for you," and they can decide.

And so I'm also using that experience to show them what worked. Also show the mistakes - I did this because back then, everyone said I should do this, and actually didn't work for me, and I should have listened to myself, and I didn't. And so I think a lot of what we get to be as big sisters and big aunties and kind of mentor people in a way that makes them feel like they are the best person to parent this child. And I think that's a gift that we give them, and obviously a gift that we give ourselves.

Information Overload vs. Internal Knowing

Britta: Yeah, I love that. And I see it's challenging for a lot of parents right now to navigate this unknown of new parenthood, this rite of passage into a whole new world that they didn't, especially for first time parents that they had ideas about, and they've been often drinking from the fire hose of information about in that new parent phase, and yet helping them come to a felt sense of what feels right to them, not what quote, unquote is right. Because this illusion of a right way that singular really is connected to the information age, where we have so much information available at our fingertips. And so when you are working with parents, you're basically saying one of the things you're doing is helping their nervous system settle into being able to understand and know and listen to what feels right for them. Did I get that right?

Brandi: 100%. So I love that you talked about this information age and so much time being spent on information. And I think I find it's one of the most detrimental things to parenthood that I'm seeing right now, because it's again, taking people away from figuring out what works for them.

Weaker and Wiser: The Modern Parent's Dilemma

And it's interesting, my great grandfather's name is Andrew, and my mom said he used to always say this, that every generation of parents were weaker and wiser. And I was like, "What did he mean by that?" She's like, "Each generation gets more information, they get more science, but they don't even know what to do with it. They can't make decisions. They can't move forward, because they have lost that internal locus of control, that internal compass," being like "This is for me or not me," because of all this extra information.

And we're seeing this in real time. We've had more information, obviously, than we've ever had where I can ask any number of AI, iPhone, etc, what I should be doing. Give me a whole breakdown of my entire life. But so much time can be spent listening to information and what I should be doing, and not just sitting, being, listening, being curious, understanding what you need.

Finding Your One Trusted Voice

And so if I could, parents are listening to this, who might be in that prenatal phase or maybe have a new baby, pick one person that you really jive with that when I listen to them, I feel good about myself. I feel like I'm doing a great job. They remind me of what's important and focus on that. Doesn't mean you can't take in other information, but don't feel like you have to follow 14 different parenting experts. You don't have to watch 20 videos, because, again, everyone has a way that they do it, but doesn't mean that it's right. And usually, if you feel like something that you're working with is really hard, you just can't hit it, it probably wasn't meant for you.

Cultural Context in Parenting Advice

In that parenting class that you went to, I think that parenting is one of our biggest expressions of our culture. And so a lot of times the advice that's out there doesn't meet us at a cultural lens. And so when you try to replicate that in your own home with your own values, can be really difficult.

The Sleep Training Example: Finding Middle Ground

A good example of this is when I used to do a lot of pediatric sleep consults, and you have older kids as well. My oldest is 18. I know you have some in their 20s. Back then, it was the first push of gentle parenting, what they now call that, attachment parenting. On the other spectrum was baby wise, just close the door and let him cry. It was like, "If you dare let that baby cry one second, you're a terrible parent. You should be parenting 24/7," there was not this gray area.

And so I would have these moms that would come to me. They want to be attachment parents. They feel terrible, "I'm failing my baby. I'm not creating attachment. I had to go to the bathroom. My baby cried while I was in the bathroom."

Britta: That's really hard when you're trying to do it, quote, unquote, right, and you're having those experience. I mean, it breaks my heart hearing you even talk about it.

Reassuring Parents: You've Already Built Attachment

Brandi: And I had to explain to them. I was like, "You know, I understand why you're doing this, because you're a good person and you want to be a good parent, and you somehow, from this literature, what you're seeing, have been made to believe that this was the only route to attachment. I'm looking at this baby. Look up at you right now. I'm looking at you. Hold this baby. I'm looking at this baby. Look to you when they get upset. Let me tell you've already built the attachment. Regardless of any of these things that you're reading or saying that you should be doing, there has to be a middle ground."

One Size Doesn't Fit All

And when you have some of the experts say it's just this way, it can be very hard for people who don't know and they're vulnerable to think like, "I wasn't able to do that one thing, and now I failed." And so what I was able to do for a lot of them was like, "You know, you made a parenting philosophy before you had the kid. Our children have to be involved in what that philosophy is." I have multiple kids. I have three, and those three have to be parented differently because they're different people with different temperaments. And so this kind of one size fits all parenting formula just doesn't quite work. And when you're new, you don't understand that.

The Social Media Illusion

And so I think being able to have spaces like listening to your podcast and finding someone that you really relate to and kind of sticking with that is the thing that I think for a lot of people would actually calm their nervous systems quite a bit. They're not trying to keep up with the Joneses of parenting, because everyone's saying you should be doing something. They don't know you. They don't know your family history. They don't know your partner's family history, if you have it. And I think that's why so many people are struggling, is they're seeing what's painted on social media, like someone had a baby yesterday and now they have six pack. And we know in postpartum, that's not what it looks like, but it's what's painted. They're seeing the Instagram worthy side, and not the DMs that we get and the people that we sit with that are crying, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless of race, regardless of where they live in the country. And I think that's what's being missed. And so I'm just so thankful for forums like yourself that will give people a more inclusive look into what parenting actually looks like, so more people can think they're doing it right.

The Nervous System Check: How Does This Make Me Feel?

Britta: Well, and I love the way that you said that one of the indicators for "Is this working for me, is this expert or this specialist right for me" is, do they actually help me feel better about myself? That again, turning to that internal locus, that place of how am I registering this in my nervous system. If I'm constantly bumping up against something that makes me feel like I'm failing, how is that helping the family unit?

Personal Example: Taking What Works, Leaving the Rest

And I totally get that. I mean, it makes me think - I'm thinking back to when I was parenting my first born. I started taking RIE classes, and I loved so much about the RIE philosophy, the communication, the engagement, really worked for me. And I remember when we started solids with my firstborn, we had this whole interaction, and the teacher was talking about how to use high chairs and no high chairs and not eating dinner with the family, and various different things that were part of the RIE philosophy, and I was struggling because it was bumping up against my not yet identified, but clearly true family manifesto inside my body. And I remember turning to a friend who was in the class, and I was like, "What do you do with high chairs and dinner?" And she just flatly looked at me and said, "Oh, we use a high chair." And I was like, "Oh." And it was this light bulb moment for me of wait, I can take what part of this philosophy works for me and throw out the rest. That's freaking brilliant.

The Lost Village: Why We Need Formulas

Brandi: And they don't know that other people aren't following it to the letter. And I think when a lot of people need these spaces, the formulas, because we don't have the villages anymore. You don't have the red tent, you don't have the aunties and the grandmas, because they're probably still at work, and so we have missed out on having that. My mom had my sister, she moved in. They moved in with my grandparents, that's what you did. You had a baby, you moved in. They stayed there for the first six months to a year, I think, so that my grandmother could feed my mom and show how to take care of my sister, which I'm sure my mom loved. I'm putting that in quotation marks, but there was a space that you could learn from the elder women in your community. They would teach you about breastfeeding. They would teach you about caring for your baby. They nurtured you. And because we don't have this, we have parents who are looking for that space, and some of the spaces they're finding aren't meant to actually uplift them. They're meant to tell them, "This is the way," and it makes them dependent. It makes them feel like they're not doing it right. And like you said, the goal is to find those spaces where you feel welcome, where you feel like you're doing well, where it's enhancing your relationship with yourself and with your child.

Creating Your Own Fourth Trimester Support

Britta: And if you find them, and some parts work and some parts don't, you can pick and choose. You take what you want and leave the rest. You do not have to follow things to a T. And I love that, and it makes me think about and this is definitely in your area of specialty, is around that new postpartum period, and you spoke about how your mom did with your sister being enveloped by village and supported and nurtured. There's a real desire right now with families that I work with to do a fourth trimester lying in period, or a la cuarentena or something of that, that nurturing fourth trimester, or the first 40 days. There's that desire to kind of be held within cultural practices. And I have seen it work in a couple of different ways, like fabulous, so supportive, so helpful, and then also set a certain kind of expectation that it will arrive and it will be there for you. And it doesn't show up.

The Reality of Modern Postpartum Planning

Brandi: Exactly. I think that we're seeing so much of it as if it just is there, and they usually find themselves leaking by themselves and crying because there's no one actually there if they haven't pre planned it themselves, which in itself is another tax on mostly, usually the person who's carrying the baby to then create their own soft landing. And so I think there unfortunately, has to be a little bit of that pre planning for them to get the kind of postpartum that just allows them to heal, not just physically, but emotionally, and have that time to connect with baby.

The Portal of Parenthood: A Time for Growth

And I believe it is that period of time where you actually start to hone that internal compass. We talk about mother's intuition, father's intuition, whatever you want to call it, it needs the time to be able to merge your former self with this new person that becoming. I've always felt like there's this portal that opens every time you have a kid that's only available to you at that time, when it gives you the biggest chance to grow yourself. Because we learn something from every experience with our children and who they are and what they need from us. I think in itself transforms you.

And so if you have the right formula in place for yourself, where you're being nurtured with food, you are able to step away from work for a little bit, maybe you have the friends and family coming around that really lift you up and really support you. It allows you to focus on that part of growth, which allows you to become the best parent to this child. And so many people unfortunately, miss out on that, and then they are even more reliant on these outside people to say x, y and z, because they didn't get the chance to really hone it for themselves.

It's Never Too Late for Self-Care

But I hope that people hearing this, who might have older children are hearing that it's never too late to do this. I don't care if you have a six year old, go give yourself a 40 day quarantine if you need to, if it's just taking two days at the month and going to a hotel, you need this kind of downtime to re engage with the person that you become. Because I think we don't understand how much parenthood changes us. We don't talk about that enough.

A Career Change Story: When Who You Were Doesn't Exist

When I had my first I was about to graduate from grad school, and so I had actually accepted a job when I was pregnant, and it seemed like the best possible situation. I didn't have to start until he was four months. They had an on site daycare. They gave us lunch. It was like it couldn't have been better set up, in my mind. So, come to four months, I show up to this job, and my master's degree in social work, and so I was going to be working in a pretty emotionally taxing environment, working with children who had been through a lot, and on day one, I'm pumping I have a major breakdown in this office, at work on day one, and I'm just like, "I can't do this," but also like, "I've been there less than 24 hours, but because I'm hormonal again, these kids are depending on me. They're gonna think I abandoned them. They have only known me for an hour."

Britta: That's not what it's - it's about you.

Brandi: I realized the person who accepted this job didn't exist anymore. She was the person that was pregnant. I was a new person, and I didn't know that I had made a decision that wasn't going to match this new version of myself. It never even occurred to me that I would feel something different when I had this child, and I was just like, "I can't do this." And on day two, I resigned, and it was the best decision I ever made. And I stayed home for the first 15 months with my son, and thankfully, I had the situation to be able to do that with a partner. But I just knew that I had changed, and why had no one told me that the change was going to be so significant. And I remember thinking about that, and it still sits with me, like I was so confident in this job and it was the best thing, and I was so ready, and I showed up. I was like, "Who picked this? Who was that person? Was she crazy? What was wrong with this person?" And I think a lot of parents end up hitting that spot and not realizing it can be a big shock to the system.

Why We Can't Hear the Truth Before We Live It

Britta: Absolutely and I love how you said, "Why didn't anybody tell me?" And I often say, even if they had, you didn't have the ears to hear it, because you actually grow those ears through the journey. You couldn't have heard that prenatally about who you were going to be at four months because you didn't even have the capacity to know it then. Somebody could have said, "Oh, Brandi, the person you're gonna be at four months is not going to be the person who accepted this job." And you might have gone, "Uh huh, yep, I get it."

Brandi: I would have thought like, "I'm sorry you couldn't do it, but I can." That's what I would have been thinking. I would have been like, "Okay, well, I understand what you're telling me, and I really believe that for you is what I would have thought. That's not me. I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna be able to do all of this. There's no problem. What are you talking about?" And so you're right. I wasn't gonna be able to hear it.

Friendship Changes: A Universal Experience

And I think even the ones who are pregnant now are just kind of like, I was told in my friendships would change, and I didn't believe that, and it definitely my friendships changed, and I had been told that, and was just like, "No, we're just so connected and tight. That's different. I understand that happens for other people, but that's not going to be the case for me." And for me. That was so traumatic for me. One of the most traumatic parts of me becoming a parent was the change in my friendship relationships, and I felt like I was blindsided, because I thought we're going to have these babies together and be on this journey together. And my closest friend that I had before I had a child, didn't see my baby till he was 13 months old. And it was so traumatic for me, because I was just like, "We were going to be going with each other to lunch with our babies, and doing the whole thing," and there was no way for me, and people told me that, but until I was in and I was just like, "Oh, things do change, and perspective change, and what people have capacity for changes, and we just have to give them grace."

Learning Grace Through Parenting

And the time I was really hurt by it, and later, now I give her a lot of grace, because now, seeing it from this position, as a 46 year old, and not 28 year old, she was a little bit older than me, had struggled with having a child and hadn't had it yet. And I was really upset with her, and now, as a mom of three, she was just in her own trauma, and dealing with her own it was too difficult for her to be around me and this new baby when she was trying to do that, not having that same outcome.

And I think that's if you learn anything in parenting, is that I've learned to have a lot of grace for people and their situation and how they're parenting their kids, because you just have no idea their journey they've been on to become parents, or the journey they've been on to redefine themselves from their own family of origin and childhood, and I think that's the biggest lesson that I've learned. And so if there's a parent listening to this and feeling really bad about they've not been able to meet their own expectations of parenthood, I'm hoping that they will give themselves grace and understand there's so much that impacts how we parent our kids, and if our children truly pick us, which I think they do. They also need all that that comes with, including our falls and our growth and trying to kind of overcome the things that we don't want to give to our children. And I don't think we give ourselves enough of that, and that the internet and social media definitely doesn't give enough grace. And so I just want people to kind of be listening to that and surround themselves with people and experts who are constantly talking about giving themselves grace.

Finding New Community in Parenthood

Britta: Yes, I agree completely. And are acknowledging, even if we don't have the ears to hear it, acknowledging the great changes that go on, that you may have a very clear idea prenatally of what your postpartum journey is going to be like, and it may be very, very different. You might be graced with a postpartum or a birth journey that was just what you thought it would be, but the greater likelihood is that it's different, and our job is to keep going and to give ourselves that grace. I love - I was just talking earlier about the feeling of the change in friendships, and how that was a big surprise for me as well, that like I'm tight with my friends like this, this is going to be amazing, and then realizing that what I needed as a new mom was very different than what that friend group provided me. And it's not that that friend group is gone. I've circled back to them, but I had to find a different community for that early parenthood phase that offered me what I needed, what I was hungry for in that early parenthood phase of life.

The Upside: Building Lifelong Mom Friendships

Brandi: Yeah, and there's this brighter side that my closest girlfriends right now are the moms that I met when I had a young baby. And so there is upside to this. I can't say that I circled back to some of them, but some got clipped out for sure. I feel like my closest girlfriends to this day, 90% of them we met within the first year of me having a baby, or at preschool, or something like that. And so there is a death, because you go through this - parenting is such an amazing journey. I've been writing this thing about the 18 lessons that I've learned in 18 summers as a parent. And one of the things that came up over and over is there's so much capital in your social community. There's so many times where I didn't think I was doing a good job, or I want to do X, Y and Z, and it was my friends, my family, my village, that made this process so enjoyable, so memorable.

The Power of Chosen Family

My husband always said, "You have the best friends, you have the best friends." And I'm like, "You know what? I know I do," and I take a lot of pride in that, that we've kept these relationships going now for 18 summers, and that we have been through so many different things in our friend group. We've had one of my best friends, her husband died a couple years ago, and so many things have happened, and the kind of community that you build around you and what you're giving that to your kids as well. Those are their secondary aunties and uncles and their secondary cousins. And we spent so much time being with each other, like this family that I've chosen outside of my own family of origin.

The Need for Real-Life Connection

And I think that with online, there's this prioritization of being online, and there still has to be this village around you in real life. And so I love that people have access if you're in a little small town and you don't have a mommy and me, I love that you have access online. But I implore people, we still need to touch, see and feel. We're mammals. We are communal by nature. We need to have that. And I think that a lot of people aren't prioritizing that the way they did before we had social media. And I think we're seeing that effect on mental health for new families. We're seeing that with children as well. They need to have that community - we were not meant to parent these children on our own. I love to see my friends like I'm thinking about this, but I think this is my own childhood coming up through here. "What do you see when you see this?" And people have my friends saying, "Girl, that's you, this kid is okay. You're fine." And we need, we all need the mentoring. So I think it's having that space where I don't have all the answers to parenthood, my husband doesn't have all the answers. And so being able to lean on my best friends, my mom, my sister, who has children - being able to get their experience and be able to normalize my own uncertainty in itself, has been a gift.

Traversing the Swamp of Parenthood Together

Britta: Yeah, well, and there's also something about forging friendships while traversing the swamp of parenthood, like it's a journey and you're getting sucked down into the mud. And then there are times when you're getting tripped by a vine, and you need somebody to be able to grab onto and keep walking through that swamp. Who's also like, "Yeah, that alligator over there, let's steer clear of that" - together in it. And that's so there's a bonding that happens with that when you're doing that journey in some way with others, and it also helps the resilience and the nervous system capacity to be able to have somebody mirror you, support you, lift you up, lean on you, all of those things that reciprocal nature really makes such a difference.

Parents Deserve Their Own Graduation

Brandi: Yeah. I have this visual, like, you know, you're seeing everyone posting about their kid, like, right now, like the graduations and my son will be finished in less than two days. You have the graduating class of 2025, and I feel like parents need to have that. Where's our graduation? We need our own graduation, like we should be up there, like "You did it, you made it." I mean, you're parenting them forever. But you know what I mean? I still need my mom's parenting, and I'm 46, but I feel like we've been through a journey to get this kid to this point. There's a lot that's happened in our life. A lot of changes that have happened, a lot of growth. And I feel like we need to have that space. And a space like yours gives that to people - to understand these different milestones, that they should be applauded. You should be applauding yourself, that it's the most fulfilling thing to be a parent, but we also minimize that it's hard work.

The Wish for Supportive Community

Britta: Absolutely, and I hate the messaging or the culture of cutting each other down. I wish - one of the things, one of my wishes for new parents, is that those around them, similar to what you were saying around even leaning on experts - is I wish that folks had community online or in person who lift them up and celebrate their wins and not cut each other down. This is hard enough.

Real-World Example: The Bathroom Incident

Brandi: Yeah, so hard. Like, lady, I'm trying to make it through the day. Give me a break. I remember my friend was saying she was in a restroom and she was trying to get her toddler to wash his hands, or whatever. And some lady came to her and was like, "It's not that big of a deal." And she's like, "Lady, I'm just trying to get my kid to wash his hands. Let me be. I don't need this right now. I'm barely holding it together here at the California Science Center."

Britta: Right? What would be different if that person instead just said, "Is there anything I can do to help?"

Brandi: Yeah, "Hold your bag while you pick up your toddler." Something that was helpful, and not an admonishment. And she was already there just because you couldn't be in the house with him anymore that day, he was going crazy. And it was just like, the one space that I came to be a good parent, and I had someone else telling me again I'm doing it wrong. And I think there's so much of that happening online.

Writing Without Creating More Guilt

I had a couple times people have talked about, "You need to do a book." And postpartum, I was like, "I'm gonna do it, but I got to figure out a way that the tips and the expertise can always feel like a continuum of different things you can choose and not what's right or wrong." Because I would never want someone to take what I've said as gospel and be like, "Well, I didn't do it this way, so now I've done it wrong." I want them to feel like it's always an accessory to their own parenting - accessory to what they know to be true for their family. And I think not enough of us - you do it so well in Transformed by Birth and so many other professionals do it well, but not enough of us are doing our own outpouring and our outreach in a way that makes everyone feel seen and not feel like they're just getting things wrong. I want them to feel like, "You know what, you've gotten some cliff notes here. This is great. I can take this with me," not "Now that I've been reading this, I can see I really messed up."

Britta: Yeah, right. We don't need more ammunition to berate ourselves.

Brandi: Gosh, definitely, we're going to do that on our own.

What's Easier vs. Harder About Parenting Today

Britta: We got plenty. Which makes me come to a question that both you and I have been in this field for quite a while, and I've seen things change. You've seen things change. So I'm curious, what do you think is easier about parenting - early parenthood now, compared to being a new parent 20-25 years ago? What's easier and then what's harder? I think the harder is probably easier to answer. What do you think is easier?

Brandi: You are less isolated. I think that you have more connection. To find the experts, to find the people that you gel with, to find a mom community or a dad community, to find people who are raising kids like you. Let's say we're all gluten free. You can find the gluten free family meetup.

Britta: That is true. You really can, and that was hard to do 25 years ago.

Connection and Validation Through Technology

Brandi: Yeah, we can do baby hiking. There's just you can find so many people to validate your own existence, which can be good and bad, but I think it's less isolating. A lot of people that were in a silo and they felt these feelings, they were feeling that no one else was feeling that, like, "Am I the only one that's not so in love with my baby and feeling depressed right now?" And I think 25 years ago, you thought that you were the only person that felt like that. And now you can see from forums and Facebook and TikTok, that people are having similar feelings of what you're having so that, in itself, can be normalizing. And so I think that has made parenting easier - to know that the things that are hard, you're not the only one who's experiencing that.

Britta: Yeah, all right, so what do you think's changed that's made it harder?

The Ever-Growing List of "Good Parent" Requirements

Brandi: I think what has made it harder is that more information has made parents feel that they have to do more, and I think that list of being a good parent has just gotten longer and longer and longer - what you have to do to be able to be considered a good parent. Whereas I think that my parents got married at 19, and they had their first at 21, and I think that they beat themselves up less because they didn't have this whole list of things they should be doing as parents. Their expectations were quite a bit lower. They had to clothe them, they had to spend time with them. They may or may not had to play with them back then. I don't know if that was part of the plan back 55 years ago - if you play with your kids back then, I think they might have missed that part. But in general, there just wasn't as many expectations. And so people were in the moment. They weren't beating themselves up as much, and they could just be.

The PhD in Parenting Problem

And I think people in 2025, if they went online, they would feel they need to have a PhD to become a parent. There are scripts you have to follow. There's certain foods that you definitely can't give them. What you have to give them. There's only one way to start giving them the foods. It becomes this whole barrage of these different levels that you can't just feed them homemade food. Now, it has to be organic. It can't just be organic. It has to be coming from a place where they've only paid great wages. And it can't just be that. It has to... it's just deepened, this what perfection looks like in parenting. It's made it so difficult for people. And so I feel like the clients that I have have so many expectations, and I think that's my clients - it's in general, people have so much expectation of what they need to be doing that it has made parenting harder because of these expectations.

Practical Advice for Modern Parents

Britta: Yeah. So what do you do with parents? What is your advice for parents today, navigating all of that?

Brandi: There's a couple things. One thing they have to do is decide that they're doing a good job. I feel like if you're the kind of parent who's taking the time to do this research, to do the reading, to learn the best way to feed my kid, learn the best way to create limit setting in my home, to learn not to shame - the kind of parent that does that kind of leg work is a good parent. So I think they have to first decide that they're a good parent.

Building a Village Based on Grace

Secondly, I think you have to really surround yourselves and curate a village that is built on a foundation of grace, of flexibility, of being not only child focused, but family focused, because the truth is not everything that's great for my kids is great for me.

Britta: And that matters, right? Like you matter too, and your family matters.

The Triangle: Finding Balance Between Parents and Children

Brandi: And I think that's what gets forgotten. And if you prioritize both, there will be a happy medium for you and your kids are going to be one of the greatest recipients of you including yourself in that. One of the greatest gifts that my mom gave me is that she made time for herself. I, as a mom of three, love to spend time on myself, doing things on my own. I don't necessarily feel guilty about that because I was given that gift from my mom, and if she hadn't given that to me, I would have probably been like, "Oh, I can't go on a spa day on a Saturday, it's the one day my kids are at home from school." And there's days where I don't want to do that. I just want to be with them. But there's also a piece where I know how important it is to take care of myself and to keep my passions and to keep an identity for myself, and it's because my mom gave that to me.

Modeling Self-Care for Our Children

She's in her late 70s, and my mom still goes dancing twice a week, and she has her own life, and she has her own identity. I never felt that I had to make decisions in my own life for my parents. I went to the school that I wanted. I studied what I wanted. I have traveled the world, living places that she would have not wanted me to be - she would have wanted me to be closer to her, but I know that she didn't need that of me, and I'm thankful that she gave that to me. And so I think that we think by prioritizing our kids as the be all, end all, it's not the best thing, because we also create that same thing for them. And so I would say that just understand how equally - it's a triangle, and you guys both meet at the top of that triangle, and you find what that happy medium is. Because if you're well cared for and they're well cared for, the family unit as a whole will be.

Including Yourself in Early Parenting Decisions

Britta: And then that also translates even to early, early parenthood, some of the conversations around getting rest and having other people be with our baby or sleep, and all the conversations around sleep and feeding - that one of the elements that has to be a part of those conversations is your own well being.

The Importance of Postpartum Planning

Brandi: I don't think we talk about that enough. There's so much thought about the birth and the delivery, and it is obviously this monumental thing, what's happening. You don't know what to expect, but a lot of people don't spend a lot of time prenatally thinking about postpartum. And so I always say one of - if you want to be on top of risk factors for mental health disorders and other things, one way to do that is creating an easy postpartum plan for yourself, just knowing that, "I'm going to get these meals delivered from Whole Foods next week, or my aunt said she's going to come and watch the baby for me one afternoon a week so I can take a shower." Just having that plan and pace. We have seen for mental health that it does reduce postpartum depression, it reduces postpartum anxiety, just knowing you have those supports. And so that's what you can do to kind of pre plan. You don't really know what to expect when you're pregnant, and people kind of think like "Everyone did it, I'll be fine," and you probably will be fine. Doesn't mean you have to go through so many hills and valleys to get there. You can make your landing a little bit softer.

Postpartum Support for Every Budget

Britta: Yeah. You can do some pre planning in a lot of different ways and from a lot of different levels of resources. So if you don't have a lot of financial resources, you can pre prep meals and have them in the freezer. You can ask friends to support - there's a lot of different ways. If you have access to more resources, postpartum doulas are a godsend. They are just amazing. Sometimes I - I don't want my birth doula friends to get mad at me for this, but I sometimes think postpartum doulas are even more important than a birth doula, because it is so helpful to have somebody there holding you on the other side of birth.

Normalizing the Universal Parenting Experience

Brandi: It is, and I think that you go back to any culture since the beginning of time, people had babies were supported and, mostly back then, was by other women. Obviously, it looks different now, but we need that time. You need to hear the stories and to hear that, "Oh, I went through that same thing. It's not just you." I find myself saying that all the time when I'm working with clients like, "Oh yeah. I had clients who dealt with that." They're just like, "Am I just weak because my body's not working the way it's supposed to be? Is this harder for me than everyone else?" And that is a piece. Is the becoming a parent is starting to realize and normalize and see this journey that everyone's gone through, and then you become a part of the club. But it takes that time of kind of figuring out, "Is it just me, or is this something that everyone experiences?"

Democratizing Doula Care

And so I think, like you were saying, regardless of resources, I'm most happy about is that now we see doulas - getting care is not just something for someone who has a lot of financial resources. I'm so happy that I think it kind of happened around pandemic when Grandma couldn't fly to help you and you had to get some extra help - that we started to see in these past five years, that everyone can have a doula. Everyone can have someone doing postpartum meals for them, you don't necessarily have to be a wealthy person. There's ways to get around that. Like you said, it's by doing some meal prep or having someone only come for two, four hour shifts, just something, getting a postpartum massage, hiring somebody who's in training who wants to learn. And through the process, there's a lot of different possibilities, and 20 years ago, I did not see that. And so that's one thing that has changed a lot, and I'm so thankful that every mom is starting to say that they deserve to have some of that support, and I'm hoping that will continue.

Where to Find Brandi's Wisdom

Britta: Yeah, I do too. Okay, well, you and I know that we can talk and talk and talk for a long time, but we're gonna have to start wrapping up. So where can people find you? Brandi, because you have such a wealth of information, but even I'm going to say that differently, actually - yes, you have information, but you have wisdom. And I think wisdom is different than information, and I think people need wisdom now. And so where do people get to connect with you?

Brandi: So they can find me on Instagram, and that is at Brandi with an i, underscore Jordan, underscore official. They can also find me on my podcast at Dear Doula, and we also have an Instagram at Dear Doula Podcast, and that's the best ways. And I'm an old lady, so I'm on Facebook, and you can just look me up Brandi with an i.

Britta: Yeah. We're over there too.

Brandi: That's where I like hang out. But the young folks listening to this probably go to other places.

Final Question: What New Parents Need to Know

Britta: Okay, so I love that, and I'm so grateful for you. So I like to end these podcasts with one question. So are you ready for our final question?

Brandi: Ready.

Britta: Okay, what's one thing you feel passionately about that you want new or expectant parents to see, hear, feel or know during this profound period of transformation that they may not already know?

You're Doing a Great Job: The Ultimate Message

Brandi: Oh, that's such a big one. So what I really want them to know is they're doing a good job. There's going to be so many points of this journey where they're going to feel like they're failing their partner, they're failing the baby. Most likely you're doing a great job if you're asking yourself that question. And I think the root of that is just saying during this period, they need to understand it's such a place for self discovery, self growth, that particularly the fourth trimester, you're becoming a new person. You are redefining your relationship because you were a couple, and now you are a family. You were just a wife, and now you're a wife and mom, depending on what your family setup is. And so I think that if they can give themselves grace during this unimaginable period of self discovery, at the end of it, they're going to understand they've been doing a great job.

Closing Words

Britta: I love that Brandi. I love being with you, and I'm so grateful to you. Thank you so much for being here.

Brandi: Thank you for having me.

Britta: And thank you listeners for sharing this time with us. If something shared today impacted supported or moved you, please share this episode with a friend. I produce this podcast myself, and your support makes it possible to show a little love for the podcast and these conversations. Please follow rate and review. If you'd like to continue the conversation, please join us on Instagram at transformed by birth. I look forward to being with you again on the next episode of transformed by birth. Now let's gather what we want to take away from this episode. With an inhale, grab your candle, and with an exhale, blow out your candle until next time bye, friends.