Being a Parent Without Losing Your Erotic Self with Darshana Avila

Introduction and Welcome

Britta Bushnell: Hello folks, and welcome to Transformed by Birth, a podcast about the rite of passage of pregnancy, birth, and new parenthood. I'm your host, Britta Bushnell, author, mythologist, childbirth educator, and an all-around deep diver with a side of goofball. I'm so glad you're here today. We're talking about sex and the erotic life during the perinatal period and beyond. This is going to be juicy, folks, so grab your comfy beverage of choice or take us along for a walk as we connect with Darshana Avila.

Before we begin, we start with — we start the way we always do — by lighting a candle. If you want to join me, please do, or just take a breath as I light mine.

Today's candle is for the birthright of connecting to our erotic self.

Across the 25-plus years I've worked with new and expectant parents, one of the areas of conversation that resurfaces again and again is sex. It is clear to me that having a baby activates a sexual reckoning for the couple as well as for the individuals within it. As a highly sexual person myself, having a baby rocked my relationship with my erotic self in ways that were unexpected and challenging, while also eventually liberating and expansive.

Becoming a parent doesn't have to mean the death of your erotic self. Pleasure, aliveness, desire — that powerful life force that contributed to expanding your family — that doesn't have to disappear into a fog of sleepless nights and endless caregiving, even if it goes on pause, potentially for a period of time.

What if eroticism is about so much more than sex? What if it's about power and truth and connection to yourself and a vitality that new parents desperately need but don't talk about enough?

My guest today is Darshana Avila, a trauma-informed somatic educator, practitioner, and international speaker who helps people reconnect with the most essential aspects of themselves — their truth, their desires, and their capacity for profound pleasure and power. Darshana is known for her grounded, candid, and relational approach. She bridges the worlds of erotic embodiment, trauma healing, and self-actualization — kind of three things that all come together in this period of time we're talking about, folks. Her work has been featured on Netflix's — how do I say that? Netflixes — yeah, I'm just gonna go with it — Sex, Love, and Goop, The Guardian, The New Yorker, and numerous leading podcasts.

Darshana, welcome. I'm so excited to have this provocative conversation with you. Welcome.

Trickster Energy: Humor and the Deep Dive

Darshana Avila: I love it, and you had me at "side of goofball," so I'm just all right.

Britta Bushnell: Yes, I certainly have a side of goofball. It's kind of like the part that connects with the deep diver — like they go together, they're kind of two sides of the same coin.

Darshana Avila: Trickster energy — it's like, yeah, the wildness of it. You've got to be able to laugh at these deep esoteric waters that we like to swim in. Like, yes, insert some humor. Yes.

Britta Bushnell: Especially when we're talking about things that are wildly transformative and often confronting — like birth, like sex, like erotic energy. I mean, we're in that world where we've gotta not take ourselves too seriously.

Darshana Avila: And a lot of people take their sex lives way too seriously, in my opinion. So, yeah, off point — which is not to say that it isn't important. To the contrary, I would argue it's one of the most important things. But the holding it so tightly, and things being so serious like that — that's not necessarily going to make for the most satisfying outcomes here.

Britta Bushnell: Right. Because I mean — oh boy, we're just like jumping right in. I mean, it's making me think about how important my head is, like my thoughts, for my connection to my erotic self. And if I'm taking it — if I'm using my mind to like micromanage and think really hard about sex — it kind of kills the vibe.

Darshana Avila: Totally, totally.

Defining Eroticism: More Than Just Sex

Britta Bushnell: Whether it's even — I mean, I kind of want to back us up a little bit, because we're talking about sex, but we're also talking about erotic energy, and there can be a conflation. So I want to ask you to kind of piece apart what it is we're talking about.

Darshana Avila: Happily, because this is one of my most favorite things to do, and to speak of. So, you can think of erotic and eroticism — erotic energy — as the umbrella term, so the highest level here. And beneath that we've got sexuality, we have sexual energy, sexual activity, but we also have sensuality. We have what it is to be in a body that senses, that experiences, that is in relationship with our surroundings — human, more-than-human. We have our creativity of all forms, so whether that's the art you make, or whatever project you pour yourself into, whatever ways you're innovating and bringing your unique genius into the world — your erotic energy is that too. Because fundamentally, more than anything, eroticism is synonymous with life force. So it's that vitality, that aliveness, that you then — when you have more access to it — get to channel into all the ways that you show up and do life. So bring it with you to the bedroom, sure, but bring it with you into any relationship, any conversation, any creative pursuit. And when you're harnessing that with intent, when you're more plugged in to your own vitality, all of these things change.

Just the other day, I was working with a couple who have a nine-month-old. Yes, let's go there, because that shows up really strongly in this postpartum period. They chose their postpartum time to reach out to me. Now, their circumstances happen to be that they both are taking extended sabbaticals to be able to focus on their early parenthood, which I know is not everyone's reality. So I do like to place things in context, and I think that what I'm about to say still applies.

What they decided is: we don't want to let our intimacy fall to the wayside. And I'm being really intentional in using the word intimacy there too, because that's another thing that warrants defining — related and separate to sex. Intimacy is not just sex, and I don't use it as code for sex. So when we talk about devoting time and energy and attention to intimacy, sure, that might include getting it on with your person, but it also is about how you're tending to these other aspects of connection — spiritual, sensual, emotional.

So here they are, parenting a nine-month-old, and at least their sex life was good enough, by both of their accounts. Like, good enough: we enjoy each other, and we have a sense that it could be a lot better. We've got some extra space — let's focus on it. And I get that. Like I said, the extra space may not be everyone's truth. But the reason I brought that in was: here I am taking them through some practices around consent, around being more skillful and nuanced, and expanding the range of how they touch one another, how they ask for touch, how they move into connection. We had done a series of practices, and at the very end we're sitting there debriefing, and she's like, "You know, I realize I default to this way of kind of like a silliness as a defense mechanism — like I go toward more playful energy, but I don't stand in my power as fully sexually." And she immediately connected it to her professional life — like, when I access more of this power here, when I root more fully in myself, that comes with me everywhere I go, that comes with me in all of my relationships.

And so we're going to have this conversation today, wherever it takes us, and I want everyone listening to really kind of listen through that ear of: how can I take what I'm hearing and learning and apply it wherever in my life it might serve and be of benefit? Which, spoiler alert, is going to be everywhere.

Britta Bushnell: Yes. And I think that's — I'm so glad that we've kind of pieced apart some of these words that get conflated to think they're the same thing, when in fact they're not. And I'm imagining, as I'm listening, I'm kind of imagining the listener who has a new baby or is in a postpartum period where they're like, God, I am touched out, I don't have connection with my partner beyond the co-parenting roommate vibes. And it can feel like a lot of shoulding to then be like, "Oh, and I'm supposed to be connecting in with intimacy and with sex." So — how, where do you go with parents who may not have spaciousness or a strong place of innate desire to focus on this place, simply from the mostly from the place of exhaustion? Like, where do we go?

[Note: Recording interrupted here — technical dropout. The following exchange covers the reconnection and recap.]

Think we just lost — I lost. Hi, hi. Well, I don't know what just happened.

Darshana Avila: It froze, and then it said recording stopped, and that I was now the host. And then I —

Britta Bushnell: That was really weird. That's never happened before. So I apologize.

Darshana Avila: It's okay. Yeah, I don't know —

Britta Bushnell: I don't know what just happened, but you know, good thing I have an editor — yay.

Darshana Avila: And it dropped out right as you were about to ask a question, so I didn't actually hear any of the question that came through.

Britta Bushnell: Okay. And I saw yours went yellow and then froze, and then — so I will pick up at the question asking.

[Editor's note: Cut the above technical interruption. Resume at Britta re-asking the question below.]

Okay, so Chris, just know we're going to need to do some cutting here, and I'll see if I can grab my question back. So I'm thinking about the parents who don't have a lot of space and who are maybe in a postpartum period, and they want to feel connected in an intimacy way — or and/or a sexual way — but they don't have the vitality or the energy for it. What do you say to them? Like, there can be that feeling of being touched out, of having so much already on them. I don't want anybody hearing this conversation to be like, "Oh God, here's another set of shoulds."

High Possibility, Low Expectation: Starting Where You Are

Darshana Avila: Yeah, that's the last thing we want here. I don't want shoulds.

Britta Bushnell: So what do we say to help ground this conversation in the realities?

Darshana Avila: Yeah. Well, what I want to invite is: have you ever had an experience where maybe you just were not — in your mind — super enthused about the idea of having some form of sexual connection, physical intimacy with your partner? And this could pan out wider than your immediate perinatal to postpartum phase — like, just in general. Like, if you've ever had that experience of maybe not totally feeling it, but then choosing to do it anyway, and on the other side being like, "Oh wow, I'm so glad I made that choice for myself."

So I am borrowing directly from Emily Nagoski right here — which, if you don't know her book, Come As You Are, please go do yourself —

Britta Bushnell: Both of her books. I love all of anything that she's created, honestly.

Darshana Avila: But what we're speaking about here is that for some of us — for a lot of us — and I would venture to say maybe for many people who are parenting young ones: the idea of sex may not sound as exciting, the idea of intimacy may not sound as exciting, beforehand. However, if you can get yourself there and go in with a high-possibility, low-expectation mindset — so high possibility: the possibility exists that I could really enjoy myself, that something can unfold here that nourishes me, that creates a sense of connection between my partner and I, that is life-giving. That's upping the ante on that vitality. There's your high possibility. Low expectation — here's where most of us have a lot of work to do.

Our expectation about when I say the word "sex," or when I say the word "intimacy" — even though a few minutes ago I told you I'm not using that as code — most of us hear it that way. Most of us have been very deeply conditioned by a script that tells us that sex, in a heteronormative context, is penis-and-vagina intercourse. And that that penis has got to be hard, and that that penis has got to ejaculate, and that the person attached to the penis better enjoy themselves. And then those of us who have vulvas and vaginas — and we're probably the ones who were carrying the baby that you're all now parenting together — it's like, maybe, maybe I get something I like out of it. Even if that is not how you would describe your sex life, the emphasis I'm placing here is that that's the script we've all been conditioned by. So it adds to the resistance, it adds to the, "Oh gosh, I've got to show up for this high-expectation thing that needs to look a certain way, follow a certain choreography, have a certain outcome."

And when we can pull all of that back, and actually have this be a place where the aspects of eroticism that are more about sensuality and creativity are at the forefront — sex gets to be more secondary — that opens up such a wide, expansive, delicious sandbox to play in. And that's what I'm spending my days helping most people do: get creative there. And this is what we get to talk about.

Britta Bushnell: Love that. So what kind of toys are in this —

Sensory Play, Ritual, and Reconnecting with the Body

Darshana Avila: Time? They're actually literal. I love a good toy. I'm a big fan of sex toys. I also have like a little kit that's my main one that I'll use with clients, and it includes — and I'm giving away my trick here, because it's so good — it includes a pair of tassels that I cut off the corners of a throw pillow, because I didn't like how they looked on the throw pillow, but I looked at these and thought: those could be a fun little sensation-play toy to tease on someone's skin. I'm leading with that example because I don't want anyone to hear the word "toy" and be like, "Oh whoa, whips, chains" — maybe, if that's your thing. However: a toy, a tool, an implement — something that enhances your experience, brings a little novelty in.

So imagine, if you will, you and your partner are laying there, and maybe it's a turn-taking, or maybe one of you is really focused on facilitating the experience for the other. And you are running feathers and silks and a fork from the kitchen and an ice cube out of the freezer, and whatever creative low-lift things you have laying around the house, and you're just teasing one another's skin — rubbing a little massage oil, you've lit a candle or burned some incense that brings a pleasing fragrance into the room. Little sensory and sensual cues and ways of engaging and exploring can be a beautiful way to actually find that sense of connection to your own body first and foremost. And to maybe then access that reward cycle of, "Oh, this feels good, I want more of it." No pressure, because we're going in again: high possibility, low expectation.

But when you start out snuggled up together, when you start out syncing up your breath together, when you start out with these sensual, more global — and when I say global in this context, I mean whole body — we're not going beeline for the genitals, we don't even have to go beeline for the kissing, unless you want to. Like, really think about what part of my body would like some care. And if you're a touched-out parent of a young one, maybe what you want is to have your back rubbed, because you've been carrying a baby around all day long, every day. Maybe what you want is a foot rub, because that feels grounding. Maybe you'd love to have your scalp scratched, your hair petted — something that feels just relaxing, that helps you soften.

You can begin with those kinds of physical explorations, and then again — I'm going to keep saying this one — low expectation, high possibility. So that means we do not expect that if we have created an intimacy date, if we have, as new parents, managed to carve out the time and make sure the baby's taken care of and are showing up for this, we're not going to put pressure on it to be like, "swing from the chandelier" kind of sex.

Britta Bushnell: Low expectation.

Darshana Avila: Exactly. And it's really then about the connection and the intimacy. Which always — and I'm very mindful of not using "always" and "nevers" if I don't mean them, so when I say always, I mean it — always: the degree of intimacy that is available between us and our partners is correlated to the degree of intimacy that we have with ourselves. So really tuning into yourself, having an opportunity to check in with your own desires — which once again, if you've been taking care of a little one recently and that is your main focus, you have been practiced in putting yourself on the back burner to show up to this holy, needy, dependent, beautiful little bundle. You probably haven't thought all that much about yourself. There's spit-up in your hair, there's seventeen things to do, there's five loads of laundry to fold.

Britta Bushnell: So —

Darshana Avila: Maybe taking a shower feels like the thing. And maybe you have enough of an openness to let your partner join you in there and wash your back softly, and maybe put a little pretty music on while you guys are in the shower together. Like, again, I'm just spitballing.

Britta Bushnell: I love that you're unpacking and talking about some of the things that could be sensual touch connection between partners. And I also want to highlight what you said about connection to our own desire and our own self. It makes me think of what worked for me in the postpartum period. I actually had to find my way back into a relationship with myself as a sexual being. Like, I needed to be reminded that that was something that I enjoyed and that was important to me, and all of that. And it actually felt too challenging to do that directly with my partner before I did it with myself.

Darshana Avila: Fair. What helped you? I want to —

Britta Bushnell: It's in my book, so it's already out there. Yeah, but it started like with romantic movies, and noticing the part of me watching a romantic movie that would go, "Ooh — oh, I'm a little aroused," or I'm noticing like the flutter in my heart. And I would be like, "Wow, I think there's a person in me that likes that again. Oh, I think I'm a little — noticing —" Like, I'm a huge audiobook listener. And so not just — my audiobook library is filled with a lot of personal growth kinds of books, parenting books, that kind of thing. And I had to pay attention to what I was ingesting.

Darshana Avila: Yeah.

Britta Bushnell: And sometimes what I needed to ingest was a titillating, sexy audiobook.

Darshana Avila: Yeah, which — Dipsea. I will put in a plug for that app. If anyone else likes to — it's audio erotica, specifically designed for women and non-binary folks at the center, although all genders and orientations are catered to. And you don't even have to read a whole book — you can get a 10- to 20-minute little audio erotica in your ear.

Britta Bushnell: Love it. We'll put a link in the show notes, folks, so you can easily find it. And so things like that were parts of what helped — you know, begin to remind me, yeah, that this was a piece of my life force that mattered to me.

And then from there, there were sensual practices. And I was working with a teacher early in my parenthood named Sophia Diaz, who you may be familiar with — she doesn't, I think, do this work anymore — but she at one point said, "Britta, go take a shower." And, just like you said, she said, "But make it a ritual. Make the music — and you know, the week before, when you're at the grocery store, pick a special soap, or something that tells you this is going to be different, this is for you." And I loved — I mean, it was a whole buildup, a titillation that lasted for several days toward this ritual of a shower by myself.

Darshana Avila: Yeah. Because you actually have to devote time to that. And my simple definition of ritual — because I know we have in common that that's really precious and dear to us — my simple definition is that it's a clearly delineated time outside of time, with a beginning and an end that we demarcate. So that ritual can begin when you're at the store selecting the soap, as much as it could begin the moment you disrobe and step into the shower. You get to choose that for yourself. But the point is to really demarcate it and differentiate it — like, I am doing this as something outside of my usual rhythms, and I am doing this with clear intention.

Britta Bushnell: Yes. The intention piece is so —

Darshana Avila: Everything. Yeah. And so five minutes of mindful showering — that's all you literally feel that you have time for — is just as valuable as a five-day vacation if the intention is right.

Britta Bushnell: Yes. And that part of what that shower with intentionality and preparation gave to me was a reminder of the embodied part of my sensual being. So it was about the soap, it was about the sense of smell, the music was about the sense of hearing, the water on my body — I felt it, I practiced feeling it. And I actually — part of the intention was to look at myself beautifully, because that is a piece that can be challenging in a postpartum body. Like, I'm going to actually take a moment and really look at myself. Because that was also a piece that could be a barrier in my intimacy with my partner — being seen. And I wanted to see myself and have that relationship first before deciding to share it.

The Body as Holy Ground: Awe, Shame, and Body Image

Darshana Avila: That's so beautiful. And that's a big one. Whatever changes in your body — orient to that as holy ground. This beautiful body — holy, holy, holy, sacred ground. And that does not mean that you like everything you see. And just because you hear a couple of us on a podcast suggesting this, that it's immediately easy — no. It was really hard, right?

Britta Bushnell: Really hard. I mean, it's a practice.

Darshana Avila: But that relates very directly to my sentiment around: our intimacy with ourself is going to be the determining factor of the intimacy we can share with another. And that's a very specific piece that a lot of us — whatever you know, parent, non-parent, new parent, not-new parent — our relationship to our body image, how we feel in our own body, our willingness to bear witness to ourselves with compassion — and I'm going to add in there, like awe. Like, could you actually get in touch with the awe, the wonder of, "Oh my God, my body just — what?" Like, we tend to focus on the stretch marks and the wrinkles and the sags and all the negative, and not go into the, "Oh goodness gracious — my body is this miraculous vessel that literally just nourished a life, brought a life into the world." And is probably still, if you're breastfeeding, still giving life to this little being —

Britta Bushnell: Just hearing you say that — I just want to pause you for a second. Just hearing you say that just made me tender and almost slightly teary.

Darshana Avila: Yeah.

Britta Bushnell: I just want to take a breath with it. Because I think that's healing and medicine in its own right — just to acknowledge the profundity of being able to slow down and honor that awe of how profound it is, what our bodies have been able to do.

Darshana Avila: Yeah. And that could be something that is very personal and private. And that also could be something — depending upon where you are in the arc of your journey and what your relationship is with your partner — that you choose to share. Which is to say: to invite your partner into this honoring, into this reverence, into this awe. Yes, this body looks different. And that's because it is. That's because this body has transformed into something miraculous and is a living temple.

Britta Bushnell: And absolutely. And I know you're trauma-informed — maybe you can help me with this. Which is: there are some people who come through the birth portal and feel like they've actually disconnected from their body. They feel like their body has failed them, and they have shame rather than reverence and awe for what their body could do. They have an energy of, "Oh, my body abandoned me and failed me." So how do we hold tenderness and space for that possibility as well?

Darshana Avila: Yeah, thank you — that's a very important inclusion. And whether that's because you planned whatever your birth plan was — a natural birth — and you did not have that. You planned a vaginal birth and you went C-section. Whatever the things that may not have lived up to whatever standard you've been conditioned to.

Britta Bushnell: Or expecting to nurse and not being able to nurse — like, there's a —

Darshana Avila: There's so much body-connected stuff around the perinatal period that can add to difficulty and challenge and joy — all of the possibilities when we're talking about the erotic, the sexual. I want to say that I'm going to speak to this kind of as middle-of-the-road as I can, which is to say: some people's experiences might be more severe. You might be navigating a postpartum depression or something where your ability to meet the trauma may not be as robust as what I'm speaking to. And you might be somebody who hears what I'm about to say and be like, "Oh yeah, cool, I got that." So adjust accordingly, and know that getting aligned, direct support is really the best thing to do here.

Britta Bushnell: I love — I love even this precursor part of the conversation. It's so on point with how I like to work.

Darshana Avila: And I think because we're speaking to a passage — and you know, I'm not — I have not given birth, but I've been intimately close to a lot of people who have, personally and professionally. And I know what you're speaking of from the vantage point of holding space and giving support to ones who felt like their bodies failed, like they were not living up to the standard. And I'm going to emphasize that again: they had been conditioned to. Because that is what this is. When our shame is arising, when our sense that our body has failed is arising, that's because we're measuring against something that was never our truth to begin with.

And what I'm about to say, I don't say it as a bypass — I say it in the hope that it might offer a little solace. I am a believer in: how do we know that whatever the circumstances are that happened weren't what was supposed to happen? Because they did, right? Like, we can't go back into the past. I'm thinking of a friend who's super hippie, super salt-of-the-earth, home birth all the way, and after a very, very complicated labor, when it was getting down to the wire, ended up having to be transported to the hospital. And she and her baby may have died had that not happened. It went so far from her plan and so far from her so-called values, and yet — she and her daughter, who's probably eight at this point — are healthy and alive, and she had another healthy pregnancy after that, thanks to those interventions.

That's just one anecdote, but back to this question: if you are feeling disconnect from your body, and if you are feeling that your body has somehow failed to meet that standard — what I really, really just want to invite is the gentlest, simplest practice of laying hands on yourself. So if it's your breast, because you're having a different experience of breastfeeding or chestfeeding; if it's your womb or your vulva, or anywhere — abdomen, genital region — there's a particular point of contact you can make that can be so profound: put your hands on your body with loving, compassionate intent. And you might have like three seconds' worth of presence for that. Let that be enough. You might be able to stay there a little longer and breathe into that part. Maybe. And you could titrate this — which is to say, do it for a moment, back off, come back another day. It doesn't have to be all at once.

And little by little — touch — little by little, a little more breath and presence. Little by little, maybe you start to have a conversation. And maybe that conversation goes something like: "I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I've held you to this standard. I'm sorry that I've judged you so harshly." If you're listening to this podcast, if you made it through whatever thing didn't go according to your ideals about it — you made it through. And so this is a way — I do similar work with my clients, sometimes it's my hands, sometimes I'm guiding them to lay theirs. But often a very similar process of connecting.

I'm working with a client recently who, though her child is a bit older now, worked really hard to get pregnant — major fertility journey, tore very badly, lichen sclerosus on top of the tearing — and she's just like, "My vulva is disgusting," was basically her MO. And her child's eleven. And it can —

Britta Bushnell: Last for a lot beyond the immediate postpartum period — that relationship to ourselves. And we want — boy, I want everybody to find a way through that.

Darshana Avila: Yeah. And so in her example, even though it's all these years gone by — we were just doing a really beautiful piece of work, where I had her hold a mirror and look at herself. And that was a titrated experience of: look, look away, look, look away. And then she put her hands over her vulva and laid there, and the tears were falling. But she was able to really clear out the stuckness — which is often from our own self-judgment. And I'm not saying that to blame and shame ourselves. But really, the stuck feeling, the disconnect, is often because we're hanging on to this sense of wrong-making. And so when we actually show up and make right, when we actually show up and say, "Body, I love you, body, I'm sorry I've been judging you" — there's power in that. Tremendous power in that. And so that's a place to begin, if you have some capacity to lean into what I just said in the measure that's accessible.

Start where you are, which is all any of us can do.

Britta Bushnell: I love that. I love that so much. It sparked a memory for me of what I used to do as part of a postpartum circle that I used to offer — a six-week program. And usually folks were a little further into their postpartum, so maybe three months or beyond. And I would have them do what I called a postpartum body poem, where they would kind of just write: "These are my breasts." And from that prompt, they would write some of the most elaborate things of connection. And, "This is my belly." And I didn't tell them which parts of their body they had to connect with. But then they would often — not always, but often — share them and be witnessed in these groups. And it was — the things these people would share — about, "This is my belly — once full, now empty." And just the feeling of reconnecting with their body through putting attention. So it wasn't touch, but it was putting words and thought on it.

Darshana Avila: And I mean, those two go together. Because I guide a similar practice for certain clients. And sometimes they'll do it in front of the mirror, and sometimes they'll do it disrobing in increments, going body part by body part, bearing witness, speaking lovingly. And this piece about folks in your group sharing and being witnessed by others — there's a lot of power in that. And this is delicate, right? Because you want whoever is bearing witness to be somebody who really can meet you with a tremendous degree of compassion and capacity. And some of our partners may not be that — I wish for all of us that it was true, but there are some folks listening who might not get that from your partner. In which case, they're not the person with —

Britta Bushnell: Pick thoughtfully.

Darshana Avila: Pick thoughtfully. And so that could be a trusted friend who's been through something similar. That could be a practitioner, a clinician, a facilitator — like you or I, Britta. That could be you with yourself. But there is something to — because we're social creatures — it's a very natural thing. Like, I think a lot of times we hear a phrase like "seeking external validation" and poo-poo it, as if, "Oh no, you should not need that." To the contrary — we literally need it. We literally need to know that we are seen and accepted and celebrated by others around us. It is essential to what it is to be a human animal.

So in this case — I'll go back to the woman I just spoke about, who had the difficult conception and the birth injury and the lichen sclerosus — she's like, "My vulva is ugly." Like, that was her MO. She's like, "I've got a scar, I've got this discoloration, my vulva is ugly. Who is going to want to look at me, come close to me?" Even though she has a lover — she's divorced and has a new lover — but still, there was this really strong story.

Britta Bushnell: Just because we're having sexual relations with somebody doesn't mean that our stories about ourselves —

Darshana Avila: Exactly. Yeah. And what I was able to say to her is: "Listen, I look at pussies for a living. I've seen a lot. I do this all day, every day." Like I'm looking at a beautiful, healthy vulva the same way any of us looks at any other body part. It's like, if I have a pimple, to me that pimple is like a flashing red light that everybody else must be noticing — wrong. I have its full attention, and most people, if they notice it, they're like, "Whatevs, you know, it's just not a thing."

So apply that then to whatever story you're carrying about your stretch-marked, saggy belly, or your breasts, or your vulva, or whatever part of you you've really been holding this negativity toward. And if you do have the opportunity for someone who you respect and trust to look at you, to be honest with you, and to tell you what they see — and you can stretch the aperture just a little wider to let their perspective in alongside your really gnarly, biased, negative one — that's very healing. We do benefit from hearing other people's perspectives of us. And that's a way that can really support this particular quality of healing, this particular aspect of building back intimacy with ourselves.

Britta Bushnell: I love, I love the "building back intimacy with ourselves," because I think that acknowledges that there is an element here where it is transformative. I mean, I know I use that word an awful lot in my work, but going through pregnancy, birth, and new parenthood is very transformative. And we get changed by it. Our bodies are changed, our psyches are changed. And to "build back" an intimacy — it kind of feels respectful.

Darshana Avila: Yes. And there's something I want to say about that word "back," which is —

Britta Bushnell: I hate that word, yes. Well, it's a both-and. I thought it's a both-and. Well, the "bounce back" bugs me.

Darshana Avila: "Bounce back" — and also, we're not trying to go back. That's the thing I want to draw attention to.

Not Going Back: Building from the Present

Darshana Avila: So when I say "build back intimacy," I'm talking about: okay, you might have lost some intimacy. Let's replenish, let's let that back up. Which is different than saying that you are trying to time-travel back to a way you were, a way you knew yourself, a way you inhabited your body, a way you looked.

And this is true — I end up saying something like this every time I'm working with couples who've been together for a long time, and their MO is something like, "Yeah, it was so great in the first few years, and now — how do we get back?" I'm like, "You don't." That's just how this works.

Britta Bushnell: I wish we weren't across Zoom, because I'd be high-fiving you right now. This is an absolute yes. There isn't "back." I mean, I've — yeah, I've been with my partner 32 years. And frankly, I don't want to go back.

Darshana Avila: Good. I'm so glad to hear you say that, because you're not the person you were then. Anytime I've had this advice given to me in the general sense — anytime you find yourself envying or being jealous of another person, remember that whatever the one little thing is that you're honing in on, you think you want to be them — you've got to be their whole life. You've got to be all of them, their struggles, their trials, their tribulations.

So even when we're comparing to past versions of ourselves, it's really easy to glorify new relationship energy that you had when you were in your 20s or something. But think about whatever lack of skill and lack of confidence — and maybe it wasn't actually the most consensual thing. And sure, it was super hot. But did you truly feel the safety that you do now?

And when we talk about "you can't go back" — it's good, because you get to build from the present and consider the future that you want to have. That's what's ours to do. So in the present, we are having this conversation — you and I, right now, in 2026 — at a time when, for all that's fraught and crazy in this country, we also have more permission, more vocabulary, more spaces, more models for feeling empowered in our eroticism, in our bodies, in our sexuality, in our relating. We have so much more access now to really create thriving relationships, deep nourishing intimacy with ourselves and with other people.

So I personally would much prefer to focus on what I can do right here and now than be like, "Yeah, that hot sex I had when I first got divorced" — and don't get me wrong, it was hot back then. I don't even know if I'd find it hot now, because I'm not the same person. And neither are you, whoever is listening and considering what it would be to get current, to be present. So yes — when I say we don't want to go back — yes.

Britta Bushnell: Yes, yes, yes. And I just — I am loving this, and I want to pull a thread about something that you have mentioned now a couple of times, that I'm wondering how it lands for folks. You're talking about consent. And I think this is such an important part of this conversation that I want to amplify it. Talk to me — talk with us — about consent in long-term relationships. Because so often I feel like it gets pigeon-holed into conversations around new relationships. And I want to bring it out of that shadow. So talk about — even in the perinatal period — the importance of consent, as a practice, as something we do, and what it means.

Consent as a Living Practice in Long-Term Relationships

Darshana Avila: Yeah. So I'll start by plugging in another resource — please put this one in the show notes: Betty Martin, the Wheel of Consent. Betty was once upon a time a chiropractor. She's a mother, she's a grandmother, she was a sex worker. And she created this incredible body of work, the Wheel of Consent, that is the bedrock of my private practice work. I mean, for all the other tools in my toolkit, nothing works without the foundation of the Wheel of Consent. So I just want to get credit where credit is due.

And what I want you — as the ones listening — to consider is that consent is more nuanced than "Can I do this to you?" and you saying yes or no. Or "Can I do this with you?" or "Will you do this to me?" There's actually more to it than that. That's polite, permission-asking type stuff — like, am I getting the green light, am I getting permission for this thing to happen?

But when we want to create really consensual dynamics, we also want to know: whose motivations, whose desires, whose needs are we serving by what's about to happen? And this comes up a lot in long-term relationships in particular, although not exclusively. Because when we are used to sharing space with someone, when we are used to really being quite honestly just all up in each other's space without asking much of the time — we take for granted that there is a layer of like perma-consent. And that's true to an extent. But it doesn't mean that it's right. It doesn't mean that it feels good to everybody. It doesn't mean that it's current all of the time.

So the thing to understand, if you've been with your partner for a good while now — and a good while is a relative term —

Britta Bushnell: It could —

Darshana Avila: Be a couple years, couple decades. We want to really make space for each individual's agency, each individual's dynamism. What I mean when I say that: agency — power, the right to decide for themselves, determine for themselves what's going on. And by dynamism: the thing I want to emphasize is that we're not static creatures. We don't like the same things all the time, we don't want the same things all the time.

If my only option was to eat pizza for every meal — and I fucking love pizza — I guarantee you I will get sick of pizza very quickly.

So let's apply this to touch. I love having my hair played with. I love somebody skillfully — and because I have curls, you've got to stay close to the root; you don't want to screw my curls up — but like, get in there in a way that feels good. Sometimes my head feels tender. Sometimes I don't want my head touched. So if my partner is accustomed to petting my head and playing with my hair because they know that it's something I generally love, but it happens to be a moment when my head is tender — because I had my hair up in a ponytail for too long, or whatever — and I don't want to be touched like that. No one's wrong here.

Where we could go wrong, though, is if they make the assumption and just come in without checking. And they think they're doing it for me. They think they're doing something that I want them to do, but they haven't actually asked me about —

Darshana Avila: We are no longer in a consensual dynamic, on multiple fronts. There was the question of my partner automatically doing something they think is to please me, but they haven't verified it. There's assuming and defaulting to a particular kind of exchange of touch that might work a lot of the time, but in this moment isn't quite the thing.

And so we are actually no longer in a consensual dynamic in a situation like this. And that type of thing plays out all the time. And it's not malicious. We talk about consent in the context of newer relationships; we often talk about consent as an antidote directly to things that are more egregious and even violent in nature. But this is consent that is in the day-in, day-out interactions — helping us really have a sense of power and safety, of knowing that we will be respected, of bringing curiosity and creativity to ourselves, of meeting in presence instead of just going into default mode.

So when you really start to learn about consent in a more nuanced way — I mean, this will revolutionize all of your relationships. I often use the anecdote that my nephews — who are now 12 and almost 14 — for as long as they've been alive, I have been training them to consent in little age-appropriate ways. And when they were itty-bitty and didn't even have full vocabulary yet, I would touch them with a little soft squeeze, and touch them with a little tickle, and be like, "Which one do you like better?" Checking in with them. If they said no, they didn't want to be touched, they knew their auntie instantaneously backed away. I don't do the whole "just because I'm an adult" thing — my brother does, but a lot of adults do.

Britta Bushnell: A lot.

Darshana Avila: And the reason I'm bringing this example in right now, even though we were talking about it in the context of partnership, is: when I say that understanding consent in an embodied way, in a dynamic, collaborative way, will change all of your relationships — I mean it. And it starts with your kids. And then those kids who are learning about consent, being brought up with it, become adults who are far better equipped to show up in their relationships of all sorts that way.

So this really is — I mean, we could have a whole other more in-depth conversation about this. Or maybe you should get Betty on the podcast. And she has a ton of free content online for people who are like, "Oh, I want to learn more about this" — very accessible, very easy.

Britta Bushnell: I love this. And I want to just ask — because you're here now — I think that consent is an important part of the conversation around eroticism, and sometimes it's thought of as being unsexy. And yet I want to get your response to that, because I know you're going to have a great response. Because I think that in the postpartum period, consent has a really important role, and it doesn't have to be unsexy.

Darshana Avila: You are 100% right. The reason why it gets a bad rap is because we have this way of like: "Can I do this to you? Would you like this?" Like — no. Make it hot, make it flirty, make it fun, make it lighthearted.

So let me give an anecdote. Imagining a new parent, very much in the postpartum. Let's say the baby's on your body 24/7, you're still barely showering. Let's assume you're in that moment. And let's assume the role of the partner: partner's like, "Okay, I see her there, and I want to give her some love and care, but I don't totally know how to do this, and I don't want to fuck this up, but I don't want it to be so —"

If I was that person, I might come in and be like: "Hey babe, I know you are just holding so much right now. Is there anything that I might be able to offer — like a touch or something that would feel really good to your body, that would feel like giving to you?"

So that goes back to — maybe what you want is the shoulder rub, the back rub. If you can put your ego aside, show up curious, show up in service, show up sincere — and this is a particular way, the Wheel of Consent offers different dynamics about who's doing, who's being done to. In that dynamic, it could be a really beautiful thing for the non-birthing parent, the other partner, to step in and be like, "How can I offer you some nourishment right now?" And if your partner's like, "Babe, I'm tapped. Nothing" — respect it. Because this was not about you to begin with. This was about genuinely being of service to —

Britta Bushnell: Them. And their answer might be, "Actually, I'm really hungry, and I need some food."

Darshana Avila: Yeah. It might be, "I don't know how to answer you, even though I appreciate it." Could be a million things. But I want you to trust that there was a seed planted in that moment. I want you to trust that if your sincerity was online behind that gesture, there was a seed planted of, "Oh, we actually can find our ways to each other." And it might be a real slow, step-by-step build. But that goes so far.

And then I know — because I've been this person for multiple of my friends who've had babies — if you happen to have someone in your life who you trust enough to say, "I need you to watch my kids so I can have an intimacy date," do that. I have done it for multiple friends. Why this matters is because I've also had friends who'll get the in-laws to watch the kid, but they're being super secretive about what's really going on, and that creates a layer of rush and pressure and all this.

Britta Bushnell: Feeling watched — that can then kill the dynamic or heighten it, depending on your vibe.

Darshana Avila: So, this may not be everyone's reality. But I think it kind of arises something that could be really valuable: if you can get another ally on your team, so to speak, who will help you create a little space and time for that high-possibility, low-expectation way of ritualizing connection — take the baby on a walk for an hour, if you can, to create a little space. And go into it with just compassion and curiosity at the forefront. No agenda other than: here we've got a little bit of time that can be nourishing, here we've got a little bit of space that can be about our connection and what's really needed here. And then what you do inside of that space and time is going to depend upon who you all are, where you're at, how you feel that day. But having the container, and knowing that there's someone else that you trust enough to let them in a little and have your offspring with them — that goes a long way.

Erotic Wholeness: What It Is and Where to Find It

Britta Bushnell: I love that. So I'm feeling like we jumped so deep into the conversation so quickly that I didn't get to ask you about your work — it's called Erotic Wholeness.

Darshana Avila: It is.

Britta Bushnell: And I want — like, I can extrapolate what I think that means, but I want to hear from you. Like, before you start telling people where to find Erotic Wholeness, what is it?

Darshana Avila: What do I do? Yeah.

Britta Bushnell: We're doing it at the end of the conversation. I love —

Darshana Avila: Par for the course for me. I tend to be like the enthusiastic, I just want to tell you everything, and then — oh yeah. Love it.

I started out as a sex coach. And it didn't take long — just like this conversation explored at the very beginning — it didn't take long for me to realize that the emphasis on sex was really narrow and high-pressure and was not really encapsulating much of what people were seeking me out for, and where I felt I could serve.

And as I got more radicalized — because the term "erotic" and the way that I've been defining and using it really owes to Audre Lorde and other women from the Black intersectional feminist movement, who have long been speaking of eroticism as life force, long been talking about it as more than our sexuality alone — I've had the benefit of learning from those kinds of luminaries. And it was also my own direct experience. Because I have had periods — intentional and non-intentional — of feeling really disconnected from my sex, or choosing to not be sexually active with other people for different things that were going on in my life. But my eroticism — that's something I never wanted to lose connection with. And to the contrary, I want to cultivate more of it.

"Wholeness" is a nod to the fact that most of us are moving through life quite fragmented, quite disconnected from parts of ourselves. But that does not mean that we are broken. All that we need is truly here already. And so the work that we get to do — the opportunity — is to start to gather up those fragmented parts, to bring everything back. It's like an embrace. It's a drawing back into center. And becoming whole within ourselves is not about banishing and pushing away — it is about that coming-in: "Come home. Let me figure out what parts of me are operating from some very old, outdated scripts and protective strategies."

I call these "embodied protectors" — and I've got a quiz on my website you can take to learn a little more about your particular flavor of this. These protective parts are the ones that created the fragmentation, because that was the best thing that they could do to try to keep you safe. But here we are as adults who want to be juicy and thriving and alive, and we want to be in our full power and our wisdom and our pleasure. And the path of Erotic Wholeness is that.

A particular way that I work is as a sexological bodyworker, among many other tools in my toolkit. I specialize in doing deep experiential, hands-on healing with my clients — mostly I work with female-bodied folks individually and alongside their partners of whatever gender, to do the kinds of things we've talked about today. And it's a freaking honor. I've had my private practice for 12 years now, and I still have my pinch-me moments. Like, this is what I'm doing.

Britta Bushnell: Yeah. And what profound work. So where can people find out about your work and learn more about you?

Darshana Avila: My website is a really great place to go, because that's got the most. It's darshanavila.com — it's my name. I am on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on YouTube, I'm on places like that. But really, my website is the best place. And like I said, you can start with the quiz — it's a fun way to gain a little more insight into yourself. And if you're feeling called to the work, reach out and please tell me you heard me here, because I love that feedback loop of people who are like, "I heard this podcast" — like, yay, yay.

Britta Bushnell: Yes, I love it, I love it so much.

Closing Question: What Do You Want New and Expectant Parents to Know?

Britta Bushnell: So I like to close with the same question for all of my guests. And the final question is: What's one thing you feel passionately about that you want new or expectant parents to see, hear, feel, or know about this very profound, specific period in their lives?

Darshana Avila: You are going through a portal, an initiation of just the utmost sacredness. Like, what — what higher calling than to serve life? And you're doing it in such a literal sense. I am in awe of those who choose to parent, truly. Like, it's not lip service. And as we've spoken about here: you are also a thing of awe. Your body, your being. And so you deserve to care for and tend and maintain a rich intimate connection with your own self, so that you get to show up fully for this initiation of parenthood, this journey of parenthood. And so my hope is that you stay available to that wonder, and also take exquisite care of yourself along the way.

Britta Bushnell: Thank you so much, Darshana. Beautiful, beautiful answer. And thank you for joining me.

Darshana Avila: A pleasure.

Outro

Britta Bushnell: Thank you so much. And thank you, listeners, for sharing this time with us. If something shared today impacted, supported, or moved you, please share this episode with a friend. I produce this podcast myself, and your support makes it possible. To show a little love for the podcast and these conversations, please follow, rate, and review. If you'd like to continue the conversation, please join us on Instagram at Transformed by Birth.

I look forward to being with you again on the next episode of Transformed by Birth. And now let's gather what we want to take away from this episode and this conversation with Darshana, and breathe it in with an inhale. And on the exhale, I'm going to blow out our candle.

Until next time, bye friends.