Maintaining Intimacy as New Parents: Beyond Survival Mode

Opening & Introduction

Britta: Hello folks, and welcome to transformed by birth, a podcast about the rite of passage of pregnancy, birth and new parenthood. I'm your host. Britta Bushnell, author, mythologist, childbirth educator and all around deep diver with a side of goofball. I'm so glad you're here. Today's episode is all about relationships. So grab your favorite beverage today. It's a lavender London Fog for me, or take us along for a walk as we explore the energetic and erotic challenges and opportunities pregnancy, birth and new parenthood create for couples with my relationship coaches, Eli Burin and Alexandra roxo, before we begin, we start the way we always do, by lighting a candle. If you want to join me, please do or just take a breath as I light mine, I'm lighting today's candle with tenderness for the changes that a baby often brings To the relationship of its parents.

Why Relationship Skills Matter for New Parents

Britta: One of my intentions with this podcast is to introduce you to professionals I go to in my personal and professional life, so that you have the access to their wisdom and expertise. Today's guests are the relationship coaches my husband Brent and I have been working with this past year with great impact on our relationship during a year with a lot of external challenges, working with them has been profound, and they themselves are in their first couple of years of parenthood, so I wanted to bring them on to share their relationship wisdom from both their depth of professional experience and their own journey across the threshold of parenthood, because after 25 years supporting people preparing for birth, I've learned that relationship skills are among the most crucial and often overlooked aspects of prenatal preparation. Having a baby changes everything your body desires, energy, sleep, communication, capacity and so much more, yet, few couples invest in relationship preparation for parenthood, despite the reality that many relationships struggle during that time. So that's where my guests today come in. Alexandra roxo is a best selling author of dare to feel and fuck like a goddess. I mean, what a title, right? And she coaches women in relationship, spirituality and sacred sexuality. Eli burin has been a dedicated spiritual on a dedicated spiritual path since 1998 training in embodied presence, meditation, men's work and sacred intimacy, mentored by David data since 2004 he has taught internationally since 2005 guiding 1000s into deeper understanding of spirit and presence through embodied practice. Together, they teach embodied relationship workshops, including their upcoming alchemy of love program that Brent and I got to participate in last year. So I am so thrilled to welcome you, Eli and Alexandra, thank you for being here.

Eli: Thank you, Bretta, pleasure to be here.

Personal Connection and Impact

Britta: Oh, it's so so wonderful for me. I've got to share that on a side note. I met Eli 20 years ago in a relationship workshop that Brent and I took when our kids were three and five. They're now grown ups right? Working with him and similar teachers for several years in different capacities radically and positively changed the trajectory of our relationship, and then getting to reconnect and work with the two of you this past year has just been so important and impactful on I mean, Brent and I've been together 31 years, and we had major insights and openings after 31 years, working with you in that workshop recently. So I'm gonna have to really watch my evangelist self during this, because I am just like, you know, I can feel myself sweating and getting so excited and because, because this is just so exciting, plus, you are really in a unique time in your lives. Mm. Hmm, tell us So, where are you in the parenting journey?

Alexandra: Our daughter is going to be two on October 27

Britta: those first two years are huge. I mean, they're really big, and my audience is mostly expectant and new parents who are navigating that majorly transformative time, and you are new parents navigating that that time, but you also came in with a wealth of experience in relationship understanding. How did you prepare for this transition into parenthood. How did you prepare your relationship? Let me be more specific,

Preparing for Parenthood: A Lifelong Practice

Eli: I would say that on one on a profound level, I've been preparing my whole life, and I'm very grateful that I have the reservoir of experience and practice from decades of dedicated, you know, going again and again to the same practice, the same cushion, the same mat, and that helped prepare. And yet, there's nothing one can really do to prepare for the for it. And so, more specifically to us, I think how we prepared, including our lifelong study, is and we moved to a new state so that we could create the atmosphere that felt really good for Alexandra's body and for her state, and she'll share more about that, but so we made a specific move. And there's a there's a kind of preparation of realizing that you're going into something that is tremendously beautiful, mysterious on you don't know, and nobody knows the outcome. So just for me personally, however, I would prepare for that is to come back to my own core, my own source, my body. I'm here now, breath, body, whatever I can do to stay anchored in this moment, rather than letting my mind spiral out into all the possible things that I don't know about. And once you have all ofthose checked, you have the boxes checked, and you've prepared as much as you can, then it's a kind of raising the hands and going, here we go,

Britta: absolutely so really that all of your embodied practice and presence was preparation for this journey that you could fall back on. So one of the things I just want to highlight, before Alexandra, I want to, I want to hear from you too, is that so often parents are looking for, okay, great. So tell me what, what do I need to do? What's the, what's the tool I'm going to put in my toolbox? And really, what I'm hearing you speak to is that it's not a quick fix. It's a practice. It's a returning over and over again to that, that practice of presence, that practice of stillness, free for you, that that returning, and all of what you did leading up to throughout your life is, in many ways, practice and preparation, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Please add more. It's

Eli: clear too for for listeners that maybe haven't had that experience or still are saying, What does practice mean? What does that mean? Or if they've perhaps started relatively recently. Now is the best time always. So if you have decades great and to expecting parents, you could start these practices tomorrow and in a few months. And six months, have already built some capacity to stay with your partner longer than you may have before, in a moment of difficulty to learn how to, specifically for men, how to be more present and embodied in the intensity of life, whether that's an argument with your partner or the beautiful intensity of birth and a life coming in which is as intense as it gets.

The Best Time to Plant a Tree

Britta: I love that. It makes me think of that, that adage, parable that says the best time to plant a tree is 10 years ago. The second best time to plant the tree is today. And so that idea that if you have, if you didn't plant the tree 10 years ago, if you didn't start the practice 10 years ago, you can't the second best time to start is today, and

Eli: even now, like as we continue the rest of this conversation, to inviting all the listeners to begin to really have more of an awareness of your body seated in the cushion chair or walking and the breath that's entering your. Nose and the air touching your skin and just a real, embodied sense of I am here as a full body listening to these this transmission.

Britta: Thank you. I love that. Alexandra, what's your How did you prepare and prepare your relationship and yourself for the challenge of of this era of life?

Creating the Cocoon: Intentional Relationship Building

Alexandra: Yeah, I think piggybacking on what Eli said is like preparing yourself first and foremost, right? Like your relationship to yourself, to your values, to your body, to your spirituality, to your health, like even all of that for one human to prepare is a lot, right? As you consider this great expansion, especially for a female body going to carry life, you do have to kind of look at that holistic point of view. And what is my relationship to my physical body, my sexuality, my health, all of that, right? So I look at that as my individual experience, and am I nourishing it? Am I connected to it? Am I making time and space for it so that, as I gestate life, call that life in that I am essentially, like, the most robust, available host, you know, in this, in this really kind of generous way, right? Like, I don't want to host life from depletion, and so whether that's spiritual depletion, or, you know, new nutritional depletion, or even relational so for us as a relationship, I was like, I want us to be like, super anchored as a team. As we do this, we are both very like we we've been on our own, solo, independent journeys for a long time. We have our own practices, our own things we love to do. And it was clear like this is a thing that's bringing us together, that's binding us spiritually, and so it's inviting us up to the plate, you know, to use a sports metaphor, which I'm not a sports person, sorry, but, you know, but it's inviting us to this juncture where we are now entering into this deeper bond. And so how do we want to show up to the soul that's coming through? We want to be a team we want to be like so connected and so loving to each other and present with each other and able to be in hard moments, because all of the fortification that we knew we had to give before the baby came was like to really fill up the well of our bond. And part of that, like Eli mentioned, was I felt this call to be close to the ocean, to go back to the land that I was born on, that my family, my parents, still live on in Florida, and for us to create, like this little cocoon around us as a couple, because where we now have returned to in a very kind of poetic way, in Boulder, Colorado, we have so many people and community that often at times, our bond, which we attempt to place at the center of our lives, but sometimes we can get pulled in tons of different directions in this busyness and so much love and excitement of activities and people. But if we're not nourishing the bond, and if the bond is kind of just teetering above the red, like we're just nourished, but like, if we don't talk for a few days, or don't make love or kiss for a few days, we go right into the red. We don't want to live there in our relationship, the relationship we want it to be nourished enough so when a hard time comes, like potentially postpartum, that you're not just thrown into the red right, like that. The relationship doesn't just tank because, well, there wasn't enough kind of fuel or resource there. So for us, it was like, Okay, let's create the cocoon. Let's create the garden. Let's create the well, like those, all those metaphors for for resource, for wetness, for nutrition, for the bond, so that as we potentially enter this, you know, unknown. It could be beautiful, it could be hard. We don't know what postpartum is going to look like, but that we at least feel really connected. Now I will say not quite on this, on this question, but kind of a side note is that there was a cost of that, right? Like you make one choice, and then there's a cost, there's a grievance, there's a loss. So in retrospect, like we had more privacy and alone time, which was beautiful, but then we did lose the sort of greater holding of the village, and i That's why, part of, part of why we returned to Boulder. But we did have this very private cocoon postpartum where our relationship was at the center. And there was really nothing holding us. I mean, our daughter was at the center, but it was just the three of us. And that was very, very important and very bonding for us.

From Couple to Family: Navigating Energy and Attention

Britta: Yeah, and that really sounds like, like intentional energy for the two of you to decide and and to witness, oh, we can go in different directions. And we want to make sure we're highlighting and nurturing and prioritizing this space of the two and three, because one of the things that happens right as you, as you welcome, especially a first child is you go from couple to family, which is a big archetypal change, but you are also still a couple, yeah, and so yet, when you have a child, so much of that energy that has been available to nurture couple now goes toward family and child. So how I mean so, so taking this space and creating a cocoon sounds like it limited or allowed that any extra energy from family was available toward couple, rather than necessarily village or something, but, but something drew you back toward village, toddler face, yes And so, how do you now that you are back In your your proverbial village? How do you help nurture your relationship while you are also navigating family and village? What helps you stay above the red in your relationship as parents?

Finding Your Connection Points

Eli: I think it's a it's an interesting dynamic, because it's the same question whether we remove ourselves to a place where it's less or less likely to be pulled from our center, so we can create context that that support and then in everyday life, there's always going to be the moment where there's All the other things pulling on us in different directions, and so yeah, we're right back into the center of that. And for us, I think it's different for all people, but we, we locate some of the points of connection that nourish and nourish us both and bring us closer, being outdoors, dancing, being in water together just does something for us, swimming in natural water sources or pools, ritual, you know, lighting a candle, having a cacao, reading a poem. So those are some of the outward things that we just know that those, those work for us. And so for every couple, they have their their things,

Britta: yeah, how do you recommend folks identify those? How did, how did you identify those? Like, how does somebody who's listening say, Oh, God, I don't even know what, what does connect us? Like, do you have some ideas to suggest folks do or pay attention to, to help to identify some of those things that bring their relationship nourishment?

Identifying What Nourishes You Both

Alexandra: Yeah, I think the first thing is paying attention to when you feel connected as a couple. And you could look to your past, you could look to the last six months, the last year. You could sit down and go, What are the top five moments that we have felt the most connected? And you could just kind of sleuth out a little bit, okay, wow, we really we keep gravitating, gravitating towards this or this, or when we go see music together, we usually leave feeling connected. And they may be different, just like a love language or an erotic blueprint, like an erotic style, they may be different for each partner, right? But there have to be some places where you both are nourished, because otherwise, let's say I'm doing an activity because I know it feels up, it fills up. Eli, I'm doing an activity because I know it fills up. Eli, I'm doing that as a devotional offering, and he could do the same for me. But what is important for you to find as a couple are the places where you both are nourished, especially as your time becomes more precious. And so really thinking about those, you could sit and think about them together. You could talk about them as you're driving to the grocery store. Babe, when were the times that we both were having fun, that we were both feeling fed? And it may take a little bit of milling around, but those are the things you want to really kind of locate so that one person. Person in the dynamic isn't getting their cup filled, but then the other one isn't right, because, oh well, that person likes this activity. Maybe they're more vocally expressed than the other partner, so both partners need to be very aware and honest. You know that actually is something I do because you love it, but I don't really love it as much, but I'm happy to do it for you. So like Eli mentioned, we both get so happy in water, like our inner children come out and we Joy emerges from us. Like it could be a stream, it could be a lake, it could be an ocean, it could be a pool, even the kiddie pool that we've put in our backyard for our daughter. You know what I mean? We can just stand outside with the hose and some music, and all of a sudden we're having fun, right? So, you know, you could reflect on that, where are the places where joy emerges, or what what is sacred to us both as a couple, right? Like, where's the place together where the sacred emerges and where's the place where something more erotic or sensual emerges for us? And that, again, is something that you want to come to together. You could have a conversation about it. You could write it out together, and then you want to remember those things. You could, I always tell my clients, like, put it on a post it, because you're gonna forget. You're gonna be like, what was it again? Because you have so much on your mind, put it on a post it, you know, like tea ceremony, picking a card, like going to the stream, you know? So when you feel disconnected and again, like Eli was referring those are external things, right? But the external can bring us back to the internal experience.

Practice vs. Effortless Connection

Eli: I'd like to make a, I think, a valuable distinction to for people to feel is, there is the ones that effortlessly arise, that are just nourishing and connection, and we don't have to work for them. It just effortlessly. When we engage in this way, we both go, Ah, yes, I'm more with you. I'm more with this moment. I'm more with myself. And then there's the ones that are more practice or a specific ritual that you bring yourself to, and it's not guaranteed that you're it's going to be easy or effortless. In fact, it often takes some effort to find your way into those moments, especially when you're busy, especially when you're feeling a little sideways with your partner or yourself. And it's those moments that I think we'll end up we can go deeper into that, and that's what we consider practice, and that's really the realm that we like to work and teach in.

When You're Tapped Out: Practical Scheduling

Britta: I'd love to go deeper into that, because I'm hearing you, and I'm trying to hear you from the lens of clients I've worked with over the years, and I'm hearing them say, Yeah, okay, that all sounds great, but I'm tapped. I'm completely tapped out. Like, Wait, are you telling me I have to put one more thing on my list as a new parent, where I have nothing in the tank, and now I have to also tend to the post it note that says, do this, but unpack some of that for me.

Alexandra: Okay, I want to unpack it practically, because we are those people that you just mentioned. We are those people that are like, I have no fucking time even to work out to feed myself right now. I'm supposed to, like, get into my sexy, sexy and, like, do something that I don't really feel like doing today. Like, fuck that. I just need to get to the gym. Like, we are you? Okay? So the thing that I say the most, and that I talk to about my girl, with my girlfriends and stuff, is like, we're in the era of scheduling, scheduling, sex scheduling, let's say a more transformational practice, scheduling, a ritual, scheduling, working with a coach, like, if you want to transform something in your dynamic, and it's too hard for you to hold the time and the calendar on your own. You put money into it, you hire somebody to help you. You know, if you can right, like that's an option, or you come up with an accountability system with your partner. But for you, new parents expect expectant parents schedule things in. It doesn't have to be hours. You could schedule in 30 minutes where you're you give your partner some sort of a gift or thing that they love, right? Like a foot massage, or, like a blow drop without, you know, but like, it could be something that simple, or it can be, let's schedule in 30 minutes where we, you know, light a candle, read a poem or do a tea ceremony. It's not about it being like these long chunks of time where you need to change everything. I like micro practices. I like moments that you can drop in that aren't that you're not needing to, like, change your outfit and get into a mood, but you can literally say, we have 15 minutes. Do you want to lead something? Or me? Do you have a desire? Or do I have a desire? So you know, if we were to work with you or your clients, or we've worked with you, but we would try to help you to to know what is just a nourishing practice. Hey, babe, I just need a connection practice. I just need to feel you and feel loved and connected. Great. What is a sexual practice like? We need to do a sexual practice like, what does that look like? That looks like I'm leading the sex. I'm initiating today. So I'm going to initiate. I might ask you what you want. I might just like, do my thing, etc. And then, but those, and then the last one, which is Eli just spoke to, is more of the stretch practice. What's something that is a little bit more edgy, transformational, and so you want to kind of hit all those areas. You don't want to only do stretch practices where you're like, I'm always pushing myself to express my rage because it's repressed. And so, like, every time we, you know, like, that's going to be too hard to do all the time, you also don't want to just sit and, like, connection. Oh, babe. We just want to connect and read poetry all the time. And then, you know the sexual Oh, if you have time, sure do sexual practices all the time, if that floats your boat, right? Like, who, what? New parents really have time for that. But all of those things serve different functions for a relationship. And they don't need to be three hour things, but they do need to be planned. And I also think each person that I dynamic can lead a moment, so, like, you can alternate, like I do Tuesday night, date night or practice night or sex night, and then you do Saturday or something like that. But for me, it's like the pragmatic needs. You need to plan, you need to put it in the calendar.

The Importance of Connection Before Baby Comes

Eli: I would add that it doesn't need to be three hours, but if you have three hours, and especially before baby comes. Sure, as much as you can build that between the two of you, even if it feels like there's so much to prepare for as there is, but know that that preciousness of connection and bond in the sacred, spiritual, emotional way is actually, I think we could all agree is is the most important preparation, because that's the bond that's going to hold the baby. All the other stuff comes second the way the room is, and all the things to take care of the baby, like that, all comes second to just the feeling of being with your partner and being with yourself and being with this moment. So I would add that into the this relational practice piece is the idea of awareness, or we could call it attunement to self, first, just like then to other meaning, partner, and then when baby comes to family, and then to, like whatever birthed us, that whatever the web of life we come out of, whatever we want to call that force that's beating our heart. So having some awareness of those three places, and noticing how when we lean into them. We want to be aware. And so that's what good practice comes from, is noticing how my actions impact the moment. And so this is a really the subtle distinction, but I think it's really important, because a lot of practice, like going to the gym or the Yoga, you just get yourself on the mat, you just put yourself into it. You feel better afterwards. And there's some aspect of this, but there's also a nuanced part of it, where the more that we grow from, just what do I need in this moment? You can start to feel even when you're really exhausted, you're sitting in the room, you're both tired, and you're like, I have no energy to do this thing yet, if you reach out and just touch the foot of your beloved and she lights up a little bit, then that starts more spontaneous practice. And that's the kind that is threaded through every moment we have the opportunity to and that's the other side of scheduled practice where it's like, Okay, we just we show up and we do the thing. It's each moment of our life, each moment of our intimacy. We're either practicing to open and be available to this moment, or we're closing. And there's a lot of reasons to close, and there's a lot of history and conditioning and patterns that limit our breath, that limit our heart, that limit our sensitivity to this moment. And that's that's more spiritual practice that one can do alone, to prepare for birth, during birth, after birth, as we turn into elders, our whole life, we can practice those things. So that's a little bit of a bigger consideration, but I think it's important for us to feel the responsibility of it's not easy, and it's not going to get any easier as we get older and as our family grows. It's not like, there's going to be more time to practice and it's going to be like, Okay, now finally, I can do this thing. So I don't want to make it sound too hard, because. Is it's it's not. It's a combination of, it is hard, but at the same time, it's totally natural and effortless in its essence.

Practice as Staying Connected

Alexandra: And I think you could sub the word practice for like moments of connection and a choice to stay connected to yourself, to your partner, to your sexuality, to your spirituality, to your heart, right like, so all of that are, those are different threads of connection that can kind of get frayed as we go into worry and anxiety and future and fear. So that is just like, how do I just drop back in to this moment and to stay connected to the moment, to my partner, to my body, to my baby. And so, you know, breath is a great connector. Sound is a great connector. These are things that, especially as women, we use during the actual birth moment the process, right? Like, it's a very similar like, what am I going to do to stay connected? I'm going to look into my partner's eyes. I'm going to go, you know, like I'm going to make a sound, I'm going to express my needs. I'm going to say, I need water, I need space. All of that is, is similar. While we're giving birth, we need to be able to find how we stay connected to ourselves, partner, baby, life, all of it is kind of like concentric circles.

Masculine and Feminine Practices in Birth and Beyond

Eli: I just had to have to add one more thing in here. Brother, yes, please. This fits into the same, same category, and it's and it also really beautifully touches the moment of birth, ideally in a moment of us both showing up. So we're all capable of practicing both sides, as more of a masculine or more of a feminine being, and that's a healthy, mature individual has the capacity to to be clear and structured and then also just feel the pleasure and the energy of life, and yet, in if we're playing in a specific practice, to the male listeners, or the masculine practicing partners. This could be also a gay couple of two women or two men. Or, you know, it really, it's not gender specific, let's say, and if one wants to practice more of the masculine aspect it if you notice, in a moment you're with your partner. How can you bring more of a quality of presence in depth, containment that both of you go? I was up here. I was busy. I was busy, and everything's kind of what's going on, and then now I'm landing into there's actually something unique about this moment I can come back into the sacredness of it, the ritual, the reverence that just the depth of life, and that's, you know, that can be done through breathing, through touch, but it really is a place that someone has to live in on their own to be able to invite someone into it. So that's a personal practice. And that's the kind of thing I work specifically with more masculine oriented beings around and then the other side is more of a feminine oriented practice. Is, how do I? How do I so if the moment gets a little boring or a little tired, and just we're both exhausted from the day, and it's like, do we want to just watch TV or, you know, and in that moment, that partner can bring energy and bring some kind of vitality, life force that also reminds us both that it's good to be alive as good I can feel the sacredness of energy moving through our system. And so in the moment of birth, it's the exact same thing, yet that is the most important moments of our life, where whoever's giving birth is in the full moment of complete expression of life force. It doesn't get any more expressive as that, and a good partner is sitting there as present as I am here. I'm not needing anything. I'm just holding this whole moment. It's tremendous, it's scary, it's beautiful, and I'm doing my best to just be here, attuning to my partner, breathing in my body present so their practices for that moment.

River and Banks: A Metaphor for Polarity

Britta: Yeah, I love that. In my in my book, I use the metaphor of the river and the banks for this so that the banks of the river being that that containment, that responsive energy of presence, connection, groundedness and the water being that that life force that can be splashy and also powerful and can look maybe like nothing on the surface, but underneath is like moving with power and energy and by. Mentality and so often in labor, birth and postpartum, that person who is giving birth is very often in that watery existence where it's shifting and changing and moving, and sometimes cacophonous and shifting, changeability and power are kind of the main energies, I think of with that and a partner can be so valuable when they come in, in that bank's energy that you were just speaking about of that presence, containment without rigidity. We're not talking LA river banks with concrete sides, right? But with that, I'm moving with you and dancing with you. And there's a dance of polarity in that that very much shows up in labor, birth and new parenthood, that's got just a lot going on, but that polarity can also really serve us in our relationships, at times outside of those heightened experiences and polarity, I'm just gonna name the elephant in the room. Polarity practices can sometimes trigger folks, right? They can get activated and say, what are we talking about here? Feminine and then, and often in I mean, I know myself as a pretty strong person that has has a pretty, uh, solid banks energy in my life, and frankly, motherhood has so much banks energy. I mean, it is like order, structure, containment of the wild, because often our children are that river going, splashy, splashy, splashy, and so so that parent energy is, is a lot of that banks energy that can then also exhaust, like I remember it exhausting the part of me that that wanted to then be rivery, but had also a hard time getting into the river because I had been in the bank's energy with my children so much during active parenting time. Okay, so now I'm mixing all the things I wanted to say all into one piece here. One of the things I want to ask is to you, Alexandra, one of the so sometimes when we talk about feminine and masculine, folks like me, who are really comfortable in that bank's energy, hear feminine and go, What the fuck are we talking about here? I don't want to put on flouncy clothes and be all la la, la, la la soft and you know, and that caricature sometimes shows up in these circles of conversation, but you talk about it in a nuanced and more broad spectrum, way that has been really inviting to me, and I'm wondering if you could speak to that that water or that feminine energy. Eli, just did a beautiful job, kind of talking about that masculine side of that polarity dance, will you speak to bring, bring your beautiful juice to the feminine so that it encapsulates beyond that caricature.

Reclaiming the Divine Feminine

Alexandra: Yeah. No. Thank you. Well, for me, I don't know the feminine in relation to masculine feminine. That's not how I found my my feminine, my relationship with The Goddess, the feminine aspect of the Divine arose from growing up in a Christian environment and feeling a great deal of grief and loss and knowing that there was something that had been erased, and that something included the erasure of my emotionality and my sexuality, And there was something about that that I knew to be false. And I found that when I was 18, and I discovered that within myself and I heard a voice that was like, this is part of your mission. Here is to embody that which has been erased, sanitized, removed, shamed. And I was shamed for being embodied and expressed and emotional and sexual, or even just sensual before I was actually sexual. I was shamed from a very young age for that um, and I inherently just knew that this is a part. Part of my something, I thought it was as an actress and an artist, first which it was, and I explored that with photography and short films and a feature film and acting and documentaries. And that was how I expressed this quest, first, about this kind of coming together, of these virgin and whore, kind of terrible split of female sexuality and spirituality that I felt really as a part of all patriarchal religions across the planet, and that brought great grief and suffering onto many bodies, all bodies, many children, that the heart of abuse, the seat of abuse. I guess abuse doesn’t have a heart, but that the impetus of abuse, I think, comes from this. And so when I started to explore that as an artist, it then led me to, well, now as an artist, now, how to explore it as a healer? And how do I not just create art about this issue, this problem, how do I become a part of the of the healing of this problem? So all of that, to me, existed in my own quest as a woman outside of masculine, feminine. It was just like there is something missing women. We've been taught to be ashamed of our bodies, our sexuality. We've been taught that we're not allowed to have curves. We've been taught. We're not allowed to cry and scream and reach like all of this is very wrong. I just knew, right? So in my book, like a goddess, I really get into the historical of that, the spiritual historical, why it's so important for all of us to heal what I call these core feminine wounds. And the men have them too. So they're not just in women's bodies. They're in all bodies. And to me, that exists a woman's ability to walk around this world and sense and feel how the feminine face of the Divine has been greatly erased, especially in Western culture, and even in some Eastern cultures where she exists, she still exists in a very patriarchal context and for us to reclaim in our own bodies, first are the potency of all of our emotions, right? Of our menstruation like these are of our birth process. These are things that there are so many women out there writing books about, and I'm happy to be amongst that greater like internal cultural movement that is still in our circles, we'd be like, yeah, duh. Menstruation is amazing. Birth is amazing, but it's still in most places. Women are getting, you know, sent into really small rooms, and everything's being sanitized, still, right? So it's like, we're just culturally not we're still not there porn. Millions of people are watching porn, being desensitized by porn. Like, you know, it's like we're still not okay with sex, we're still not okay with birth, we're still not okay with emotions. We're still not okay with any of these, which are primarily energies of the Express feminine. And so we look at it on a personal level, our ability to feel our feelings, our ability to grieve, first on our own, then in front of our partner, our ability to rage, to express rage, first on our own, then in our with our partner, not from just trigger or not just as a reaction, but as a like full embodied heart response. So it takes some skill. Take some

Personal Transformation and Embodied Expression

Britta: practice and practice. I mean, this is something you two have worked with me, with regard to Brent, in our work together, because that part of me that has gotten so fucking good at being banks energy for my whole family, whether it's for my husband, for our children, for our lives together in these different ways, that has become sort of a certain element of containment. Yeah, and that is, is a way that part of my inner emotion and needs and wants has shriveled a bit in response to that containment. And so part of just to make it very personal, the work that we've done is to have more breath, have more sound, have more expression, have more emotion and more set, more verbalization of my wants, needs, desires, sadnesses, angers, All of it, and how powerful that's been,

Alexandra: and that conditioning, breaking that conditioning, it does take practice, because, like, even the sort of hyper independent, high functioning women that a lot of us are, it's like, Okay, do I really have time to stop and have a cry about this? No, I get shit to do. But the truth is, when we. To kind of keep our heart over contained, then in a moment where we want to let it roll open and invite our partner into intimacy, we don't know how, because we've hardened too much. And yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it's not our fault. But at the end of the day, who we who's going to fix it? It's us, you know, who's going to do the cracking open. It's our own hearts. So our ability to, you know, pour our heart forward, not just in in our mind, not just go, I'm I'm mad at you because you did this, but to go, oh, oh, I'm so upset, right, to be able to have an embodied experience, and not like a child who's throwing a tantrum. The cute thing is, though, if you're working with us, you're allowed to have tantrum me moments on the path to awareness with your emotions, right? Like you can't go from being super contained and organized about your emotions to like you have to then just be messy about it, be kind of tantrum me about it, to get to the place where it becomes an invitation to intimacy, right? And so, you know, that's part of the process. It's like, there may be days where you go to express your grief or anger or something to Brent, and it comes out Blamey and shamey and messy, and it's like, wow, I should have just said it really organized. And said, like, I'm mad at you because ABC, like, Yeah, except I'm already good at that. Yeah.

Britta: Exactly. That wouldn't be practice. That wouldn't be practice. That's

Eli: a habit. Exactly thing is, to me, is to actually become dynamic in the range. So anything we're good at, and we hit again and again, boom, boom, boom. We hit that same note, even if it's a beautiful note, we've worked our whole life for it, it's it's not true to our greater ecological being, which actually has emotion. And we spoke a lot about that too, this creation cycle, it has to keep moving so to be able to be just as contained. And you can always trust that. So becoming the wild water is like, whoop. I don't want that, but to be able to at least touch it. And I would say that for any being, yeah, I work with men in the same way I work with a lot of you know, men that are very structured and are, you know, they're good at doing and I would say the same thing, that's your note. How about letting go of what you know and being and actually being able to feel the moment and feel your partner, feel your child, in a way that isn't traditionally considered masculine, but it I mean there these things are beyond feminine and masculine. They're just a healthy human being would have a full range of expression and be able to feel the moment more than themselves, and that's a certain level of growth that we're talking about is, is me, me, me. I'm mad. What do I need? I need? I'm hungry. And we're all reduced to that in moments of intensity with our partner and especially with children, we're reduced to that, especially when you haven't eaten or slept. So that's that's real, but to know the difference, you know the difference between like me and Okay, I got myself and how am I showing up? It's actually impacting my children and my my my wife and this moment of life and notice noting the difference of becoming more more of an artistic expression of what I'm doing, rather than just a reaction.

Learning to Communicate Needs

Alexandra: And I want to add one thing there, which I wish I had worked this practice. There are two things that I wish I had done before giving birth. One is lift weights. Okay, because my daughter came out big and shit. Nobody told me to start lifting weights. Okay, because my back and arms should have been much stronger than they were. I was doing Pilates, though, but that wasn't enough. Okay, first lift weights. Number two, get really good communicating your needs. Now, if you're a woman, that's incredible at communicating your needs, Goddess bless you. Okay, my Queen's in the house, God has bless you. But if you are a part of the tapestry of so many other will, millions of women who have inherited the collective programming of martyrdom and motherhood being interwoven, then you need to practice your needs ahead of time and practice them with your partner. Babe, I need to pee. Babe, I need to shower. I need to go take a 15 minute walk. That to me because Eli mentioned, like, how do we get out of the Me, me, me, me, me needs into really feeling, into the dynamic of the partnership, we have to first know how to say the Me, me, me needs. And I think for a lot of women, especially when a baby comes along, we just throw ourselves under the bus, you know, like, oh, shoot, I haven't eaten. Oh, I've been holding this pee for three hours, like how I, you know, and I've talked to many other mothers, and this is something that is a collective like shadow template that many, and that's how we become even hyper, independent, strong. We don't actually have needs anymore, and

Britta: so we and it ends up being toxic to the relationship.

Alexandra: That's exactly what I was about to say. It will damage the intimacy so much. So lift weights and practicing your needs all the time, ahead of time, so that when the baby comes, you don't damage the relationship by becoming resentful because you're used to doing it all yourself. But guess what? You can't anymore. You actually need help. So if you're the can do it woman, you actually really do need to be able to ask for help once you have that baby.

The Partner's Role in Feeling Outward

Britta: Absolutely. Because the unmet needs, when it gets sublimated, and we don't ask for it, those unmet needs are just the creation for resentment, yeah, and then that hurts the relationship, and it's this, and partners are like, well, I want to be there, but they're not saying anything to me, and I don't know. And that is, there is a dance there for partners to feel outward, more right into what might be happening here, what might be needed that doesn't necessarily always require us to hear the words that say, I need you to XYZ, that that feeling outward piece that is so important, and it's a twofer. Both partners have work to do in this place. Yeah, that is so important for the journey of parenthood.

Eli: I i would add something here to the particular listening that to kind of meet Alexandra and like I would lift weights, I would also suggest that you do something that gets you into your body in a deeper way, because your family needs that, your your your partner needs it, your child. Your children need an embodied man. That when you pick up the child, it's not this awkwardness. I mean, maybe the first few days, but after that, it's like, okay, I got you same way. I've got you when I hold her, she can then relax into she can feel my strength, not just muscular, but strength of presence and strength of embodiment. That is going to create a very different life journey for a young one that just grows up feeling a body, another body around, so physicality, and then also spatial training, if we take it out of just the doing realm, because as men, we're genius at that. Many of us are, you know, okay, I know I gotta move that over there. I'm getting the room ready. I'm adjusting everything so it's perfectly aligned as best as I can for this birth and for the moments. And I'm noticing things spatially objects, doing men. We need to also train that capacity to notice the spatial feeling of the emotional dimension, and that's what you two are talking about, the needs, like, what does she actually need that she's not saying? And it's not just a physical thing. Often it's not a physical thing. Sometimes it is, but usually it's more of just a moment of slowing down and a hand on the on the shoulder, or a gaze into the eyes a little bit longer than you would because you're busy and you're running off to something, learning how to slow down, make that moment of contact, and then that nourishes it, it brings you closer. So it's that I would definitely recommend practicing now and especially into the birth process.

Rupture and Repair in Relationships

Britta: I love that. Okay, there's so much I want to cover. And one of, one of the things that I'm thinking about, I'm going to kind of pivot here for a bit, even though this was was super rich, is that, as I'm hearing all of this and we're talking about this, one of the things that is pretty inherent in relationship. I'm just full stop, but relationship around this rite of passage time is rupture and the need for repair. So I want to make sure that I give time for you two to talk about how, what, what do you recommend? Or, what do you what have you learned in your own work as professionals, or your lives as as relationship partners in the process of rupture and repair? That is, I mean, God, I would love a quick fix, right? But sometimes Quick Fix isn't what happens, but maybe you do have some ideas for that. You may not be able to go away on a relationship retreat for an entire weekend to unpack and deepen and do all the things, but there are the process and practice. Of repair is also a practice that is necessary. So what? What guidance Do you have, or or recommendations on that? First, just acknowledging that rupture a successful relationship doesn't mean there's never rupture, right? So so take us from there. Yeah.

Ruptures as Healthy and Necessary

Alexandra: So ruptures, we also agree, are really healthy, and it means that there are things rising to the surface. We're not bearing things under the rug. We're not swallowing truths, right? We're humans, and so we're gonna bump up against each other if no one's ever having any ruptures, I would ask, like, who's not being honest? Because inherently in our humanity, we piss each other off, we annoy each other. We all have little wounds that get rubbed the wrong way, or massive, more like, Okay, so first having it in the culture of the relationship in the household, that that's okay, right? That both people in the couple say, Okay, this is okay. We're not entering into a crisis. We're not breaking up every time we have a rupture. We know that this is a part of the strengthening, the alchemy, the healing, the transformation of the dynamic, and whether it's something in me that's coming up to be cleared, healed, met, et cetera, or in you, or both of us, that's when it's really fun that we're okay with that. And there's an acceptance piece there that is essential. I think a lot of people want to just be like, Oh, I don't have time for the rupture. These ruptures are that means something is wrong. So first you have to have a value system together that says we're okay with ruptures, and when it happens, we don't ignore it. So we almost have a set protocol in the home for what to do. We don't Stonewall, we don't run out the front door, we don't threaten, right? Like, there are certain things that are like we know that behaviorally, we need to find a way to turn towards each other. Now, both partners going to have their own attachment system, nervous system. They're going to have a way that they handle conflict. They might go into a collapse, they might go into a fight, right? So these are the things that you want to know about yourself. What do you do when the going gets tough, right? So you want to study them in yourself. Ideally, at some point, you want to make sure you give your partner the instruction manual. Hey, babe, I have a temper. Okay, I'm half Brazilian, so you grew up in a household I know where they didn't yell. I grew up in it with a Brazilian father, right? And he yells, right? So immediately, Eli can know a little bit about me, okay, so I don't really like that. She yells sometimes, but I know that's a part of what I'm getting into now I can know his nervous system that he might go into a bit more of a freeze, stoic place that can feel really disarming for me to rupture. So getting to know each other's rupture, styles and habits and patterns, so that there's like, there's just a little bit of ease in the knowing, and then the big crucible is, how do we turn towards each other in these moments where we rupture instead of turn away? How do we stay in our bodies, breathing and feeling. How do we not just get wrapped in the story, just each on a hamster wheel of the story? How do we not just get stuck in the finger point we just you did? You did? You did, right? And this is where it's hard. It's hard, especially if what we're dealing with is old and ourselves, especially if it pings one of our child parts that is like, Hey, I still feel invisible for 40 years now, and now you're making me invisible, right? So there's so many layers that we want to take into account during ruptures, a basic thing is to acknowledge you're in a rupture, to turn towards each other take a breath. Say, I'm really wanting to run out the front door right now. I need five minutes, right or could we sit down and have a conversation? Your partner might say, No, I can't right now. I'm fuming. I have, you know, fire coming out of my ears to me, maintaining some sort of a thread of okay, if we're not going to follow this through and process it or talk about it, now, when are we going to is an honoring part of a rupture, right? I need 15 minutes. Let's talk at the end of the day, acknowledging the emotions present, acknowledging each partner has their own story and trying to keep it in the eye when we're in the verbal part of the repair, not non violent communication. Like, that's not really my jam, but like, I feel sad, I feel hurt. It's bringing something up for me, like really trying to stay in your side of the street as my. Just possible and share impact, right? Like the impact, but not not pointing fingers, and that, again, is is an artful moment of like, wow, when you know you turned away from me when I was telling you about my mom in the hospital. I felt so alone. I felt invisible. So sharing the impact of that moment, right? And then Eli might say, Oh, well, I heard our daughter in the other room, and it sounded like she needed me. And so then a conversation can happen. But on the nervous system level, it's like breath grounding, trying to get out of the reactive patterning and into the body, learning how to work with your own nervous system responses. Obviously, we could do a master class on this. I mean, that's to say,

The Sacred Nature of Rupture and Repair

Britta: Yeah, but those are all really, I mean, I love the piece about being in the returning into the body, the breath, checking with the own nervous system and in the impact being different than blame. Yeah, and that feels like I just wanted to take my highlighter to that, because that's a place that can be nuanced and tricky for some folks, and yet the sharing that impact. Place can also be a place where we can feel each other, yeah, feel our hearts in the process. Eli, I do want to hear from you, though,

Eli: yes. Well, what a I mean, what a entertaining topic. We'll be entertained by it for the rest of our lives, and that's part of the you know, the wink is like we need to learn how to become more entertained at our own level of slide down into intensity and excruciating feelings of of of not wanting to be in that moment and experience that situation with your partner or yourself, is really what it's saying. And so it's always has to do with old stuff, and maybe it's teenage stuff, but for most of us, it's it's our early life, and that's why we choose the partners we do. So I want to just frame it. And that's a lot of what we talk about in alchemy of love program is looking at it from a different perspective, of, rather than it being a problem, something to fix, and like this material is to turn away from, is looking at it more like, okay, like you said, Reddit, there will be rupture. Like, I don't know anyone that doesn't have moments of of that, even the most evolved people I know, can fall into that karmic thing in their in their own body, mind. And so the question is, is, how do we cut the like, like, shorten the amount of time that we can come back to openness with our partner, and to have a like a actual ethos of the way we hold our relationship, that that material wouldn't come up if I was with someone I wasn't deeply connected with, and it wouldn't come up if I wasn't choosing in on this relationship. And that's a kind of sacred intimacy where you realize that, yes, along with all the beautiful sexual yoga and the fun of it, there comes the dark material of that's where you're going to grow the most. And you realize that when you rupture, if we turn and run away, or we turn and close down, we turn and blame all the telltale signs of being stuck in the pattern, it's your fault, defense system. And then if we leave and we think, Oh, this another partner I wouldn't have this with. It's basically coming to realize that you're leaving yourself when you do that. And if you want to actually create a deeper bond with your deepest sense of self, you it would be necessary to stay in those moments once you've discerned they're healthy and it's not like a violent thing, but it's someone you really want to be with over a long amount of time, or even short that's the way to grow is to turn towards those places, soften your breath, soften your face, and realize that if you can find just the littlest bit of of energy in you to go against the for 3040, 50 Year patterns of turning and blaming and just softening and reaching out and going towards your partner if you have it in you, and that's a that's sacred intimacy is one of you has to find it, and it's going to be a different person. One person is going to be stuck in the know, the other person comes in and tickles a little bit, and maybe it's like, no again, and you are maybe it's just that little tickle and it's like, gosh, and it's, it's the hardest thing to do. I really think it is, it is the hardest thing to do in that moment when everything in you wants to do the other thing to leave to blame. And to be justified. And yet, when you go forward and you make the contact again, and your partner and you both go it's also on the other side. It's the best, the most it's the most beautiful moment is when you find that connection again. And so I don't think there's any quick fixes for it and to understand it's part of our dynamic. And the alchemical process is to learn from those ruptures, to become more aware of why we go there. That's therapy that we would do with ourself and with our partner. And then the practice of it is, how do you still open your system rather than collapse into closure, because your system is going to feel like, this is a moment I need to collapse and protect. But you check it out, and it's like, actually, I'm here. It's safe, and may not feel safe. So let me breathe. And then one last piece I'll add in this is sort of like the advanced practice is, if you have the space and you have, like, a little more awareness in yourself to try to start to find humor with the patterns, to feel like that zoom for in that moment. You know it's as bad as it gets, and yet you've been there many times throughout your life, and to realize that actually, it's not about my partner. I mean, even if you've been together 30 years, like I haven't known them long enough for them to get this much under my skin, and especially people that have been together for two years, three years, well, 30 years. Well, 30 years, a lot, but that's, you know, that's more than half of your life. But still, that that first 1520, years, right? Is where it's coming from, where the groundwork is laid. And so last thing, last thing I'll just add to this is, in that moment, if you can just find a little bit of wiggle of, I'm so right. I'm so right. If you could just put on a song and just be like, do it, I'm a so right dance and just, or even just to do something, that you can find a little bit of freedom from the pattern, whether your partner thinks it's funny or they get more upset, or what. But usually, if you if it's genuine, they'll they'll be like, that's weird. That's outside of the box. That's not from the script. What's that? And then there's room to start to play with our patterns and to find humor and to wink at each other in the moment where you just want to turn away, and that's the advanced level, but that's completely possible,

Finding Humor and Honesty in Conflict

Alexandra: and I want to add to that, because that's really important, and you probably have to have enough like differentiation between you and the wound and you and that part inside of you in order to do what Eli just said for us, we've done years and years of spiritual work and therapy, and we love all of it, and it's really important. And there could be a breakthrough moment where you just have, like, an all of a sudden, you're like, Oh my God, I am being a total bitch. And you're like, I'm sorry, but I am a fucking bitch Today. Today. I'm a I want, I love, C, u n t, so I won't use that word, but, but, but it's like, it may just dawn on you, like, oh, wow, actually, yeah, sometimes I can, like, bring that and then it kind of like, softens it. It's just like, what Eli said with the humor, it's when we can accept these places in ourself. It's like, when we're in a rupture and we're just like, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not yelling at you. And it's just like, but we can be like, Look, I'm yelling because I'm fucking pissed. Then then it's like, Huh? Okay? Like, we can just be honest with each other here, and then it's like, yeah, sometimes you're grumpy, yeah, sometimes I'm bitchy, sometimes I'm Angular, sometimes you're cold, you know, like, we don't have to be ashamed of these places in us in the relationship. We don't have to pretend that they're not there. Like we all have all of these archetypal and colors and shadows and textures within us, and this sort of, again, I always come back to, like, the spells that we're dissolving. It's like that relationship's supposed to be always happy, that we're always supposed to love each other, that we're always supposed to want to have sex with each other. Like all of these are lies that we can dismantle, and we can just go, wow. Okay, great. Let what's the honesty? How much do you actually want to have sex? How much do you like? How often do you actually want to connect? How do you want to connect? Like, I'm actually not a bubbly person, like I'm not cheerful, like I'm more sharp, like whatever it is. When we can allow I can allow him to be him, and he can allow me to be me, it's like we're liberated in that moment.

Available Programs and Services

Britta: Okay, I know I could keep talking to the two of you for hours, because I've done it and about my own stuff, and I'm feeling incredibly grateful that you've shared your depth and your wisdom, even in this encapsulated place. But I know that you have so much. Much on offer that that folks can connect with you further beyond this. So can you tell people a little bit about what you've got available? So if they're like, oh, my gosh, oh, I need more, Britta, keep the conversation going. They can with you where what have you got available?

Alexandra: So you and Brent inspired us to create alchemy of love part two as a longer program. The first program was three months deep dive relationship program with us. This is going to be six months kind of mastermind style, practice oriented ritual space where you come twice a month with us, and you deep dive on a Sunday morning for some, Sunday evening for some. And then once a month you have a practice session with me. So and you do with the women. I'm going to be doing emotional work, sensual work, and then Eli is going to lead a session for the men. So essentially, with this type of program, we're doing one thing a week, where you come and touch base, and during that time, you prioritize the health of your relationship, the transformation, whether you're calling in love, whether you want that conscious partner to show up, whether you and your partner are like, okay, things are feeling a little bit stressed, stretched, dry, whatever it is, we want to go deeper. It's a great way to get to know us in our work, but in a group. So you also have other people as mirrors and as other potentials for learning and connection. So we're really excited about this. It starts at the beginning of October, and it ends with a three day or weekend in person immersion with us in Boulder, Colorado, if you can make it next March. So we were, it's, it's out in the world, and we really are calling in. It's a limited number of people, and so we're calling in people that really are interested in prioritizing their internal intimacy, relationships, sacred intimacy and the relationship to sexuality as well as a sacred part of their lives,

Britta: yeah, which is amazing. And I mean, I the three month container last year was amazing. And it's also out of reach for some people. So are there some other ways to connect, whether it's out of reach financially or time wise, what are some other ways to connect with your work that have a easier entrance?

Alexandra: Yeah, totally. Well, both of my books are easy. They're out there. Kindle audio fuck like a goddess and dare to feel I also am pretty active on Instagram, so I'm always on there popping little tidbits about relationship and sexuality and spirituality,

Britta: and I have been in the midst of motherhood, I might add, lately,

Alexandra: yeah, because I'm a crazy artist who needs to do my thing otherwise dead, you know. So I also have a sub stack called ripe through fruit, and I publish twice a month. So those are all, you know, free to $20

Eli: for me, you I work with men one on one. So that's the the most direct way. And then I offer something called the dojo of awareness, which is a three month online program where it meets three times a month, and it's for men, and it's really it's training all the things we've spoken about, training the body, the mind, the awareness. And the next cohort starts in November, and that's a really fantastic way of learning some of these practices and being held within a community of other men, an opportunity for practicing with other guys, questions and then specifically embodied practices that you can bring into your life. And then, if people want to go for the deep dive, every May, I bring a group of men out into Zion National Park for a week, and that's the down into, like, the the deepest program that I offer. It's in person. It's a week long, and it's, it's phenomenal,

Britta: amazing. Oh, I love that. Oh, you too. I'm so grateful for this time. I'm grateful for the impact that you have had on my life and my relationship, and I'm I'm really pleased that you agreed to be a part of this time together. We've gone way over my usual

Alexandra: our daughter is somehow still sleeping or just chilling with our babysitter, so that's

Britta: amazing. Thank you, daughter, also a little fairy dust wand waving for that. I like to end with one question, and I'm going to ask you to keep it short your answer, which I know is hard for all three of us. We love to go into nuance and depth. I. But I want to ask you if there's something sorry as we bring it to a close, there's this, just this one question, which is, what one thing you feel passionately about that you want new or expectant parents to see, hear, feel or know during this profound period of their lives, one thing you're passionate about that you want them to see, hear, feel or know during this rite of passage,

Final Words of Wisdom

Alexandra: what? Okay, God, yeah, there is no right or wrong way. I'm going to say it again. There is no right or wrong way. Source deeply within yourself for how to sleep, how to eat, when to feed, do you dance? Do you co sleep, all of these questions. There's no right or wrong way. Find your way as a couple and a family and liberate yourself from any shame or guilt around your choices.

Eli: For me, I want everyone to trust their body, to trust life, to trust this moment and to the trust that we know how to meet in the context of our body, knows what to do, and the same way we digest food, same way we are meant to be here. Yes, there's training and there's refinement and there's learning, but the underlying feeling of a trust this moment, I'm meant to be here and I know how to meet this moment.

 Closing

Britta: Thank you both so much for being here and thank you listeners for sharing this time with us. If something shared today impacted supported or moved you, please share this episode with a friend. I produce this podcast myself, and your support makes it possible to show a little love for the podcast and these conversations, please follow rate and review. If you'd like to continue the conversation, please join us on Instagram at transformed by birth. I look forward to being with you again on the next episode of transformed by birth. Now as we end grab your candle, if you've got one, we're going to take a moment and gather all that we want to take from this conversation, from this episode, and we're going to breathe it in on an inhale and blow out the candle on an exhale. So take a moment and until next time bye. Friends.