When Motherhood Doesn’t Feel Like the Story You Were Sold

Introduction and Welcome

Britta Bushnell: Hello folks, and welcome to transformed by birth, a podcast about the rite of passage of pregnancy, birth and new parenthood. I'm your host, Britta Bushnell, author, mythologist, childbirth educator and all around deep diver with a side of goofball. I'm so glad you're here. Today's episode explores myths and motherhood. Yep, this one is right up our alley, folks. So grab your comfy beverage of choice or take us along for a walk as we connect with Vanessa Bennett, licensed step therapist and author of the new book The motherhood myth. Before we begin, we start the way we always do by lighting a candle. If you want to join me, please do or just take a breath as I light mine. Today's candle is a celebration of vibrant, passionate and self attending moms.

One of the most painful things I witness as somebody who works with new parents is watching mothers lose, lose themselves in the fallacy of what motherhood is, quote supposed to be there's this pervasive story about selfless sacrifice and instinctively knowing how and what to do, about finding complete fulfillment in our children. I mean, come on, and when our lived experience doesn't match that story, we think something is wrong with us, but what if the problem What if the problem isn't us? What if the problem is the myth, the cultural, cultural programming and the like. Today's guest is Vanessa Bennett, a licensed step therapist and author of the motherhood myth, a depth therapist guide to redefine parenting, reimagine intimacy and reclaim the self, her work explores the unconscious stories and wounds that shape how we mother and how capitalism and patriarchy have less left us isolated, performing for an audience and disconnected from our own intuition, to say I read Vanessa's book would be an understating I devoured it. If you've been listening to the transformed by birth podcast, or are familiar with my work utilizing myth, ritual and rites of passage as frameworks for transformation through birth and into parenthood, you are going to love this conversation and Vanessa's book, the motherhood myth. Vanessa, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to transform by birth.

Vanessa Bennett: Thank you so much for that was such a lovely introduction. I'm like, Oh, tell me more

Defining Myths and the Motherhood Myth

Britta Bushnell: about oh, yes, let's do it, shall we? So I'd love to dive right in. Your book is titled The motherhood myth. We use the word myth in a lot of different ways around here, lots of different ways. You and I both have a Jungian archetypal background. Our books are both published by sounds true. There's a lot of similar conversation and languaging that you and I share, but I want to make sure we don't assume everybody gets this, understands and knows it all the same way, sure. So tell us how you are using the word myths, and maybe even, like, what are some of the myths of motherhood? What are some of the common and harmful myths that we've been told and sold?

Vanessa Bennett: Well, I mean, it's a really good question to start that way, right? Like, how are we using the word myth? I think in my book, I actually use it in in multiple ways. So, you know, the title is used kind of like we use in our kind of day to day life, right? So these, these ideas, these stories that we've been passed down that in actuality, are not true, right? So that's the way that the title kind of works. But I do actually use myth and story and fairytale within the book. So every chapter has a section that I call myths as maps, and that which I

Britta Bushnell: love, by the way, I love the myths as Maps section. Of course I do, and I love just note to listeners, there is one where she tells the Vasilisa story and Baba Yaga makes an appearance. So those of you who remember that episode from several months

Vanessa Bennett: ago love some Baba Yaga. So then I actually do use myth, right in the context of the story and the the kind of context that myths were originally kind of passed us. What was the purpose? Right? Well, they were for a map. They were for, you know, help and giving us kind of guides and tools and direction on how to understand moments in our life or hard experiences or passages, right? So I use it in different ways, and I think the title it maybe it lends itself to a broader audience, which is why we landed on the motherhood myth. But then to answer that secondary question, which is, what are some of those myths, the overarching myth that I use in the book, right? So I break the book up into three sections. First section is motherhood, second is sex, and third is relationships. Within each of those sections, I talk about multiple myths, but the overarching myth that is kind of what the book is named after is really and you kind of nailed it in your intro. It's this idea that motherhood and relationships should inherently fill us up, completely satisfy us, be the thing that we kind of hang our hats on, right? And by the way, they should also be easy and effortless. And if they're not, there's something wrong with us. That is,

The Feeling Behind the Myths

Britta Bushnell: I feel you on this one, and I think our listeners feel you on this one. I mean, that is, I mean, it's painful as well as for me, I can feel both as I hear you say that I feel pain, badness, anger, rage,

Unknown Speaker: same, same,

Britta Bushnell: all of it kind of comes flooding in. And I think that's in part. Part of why I felt so captivated by the book is because it helped me feel a lot and put words to the complex feelings that are often put in the corner and in the shadows Because of that messaging that says something's wrong with us, if we're feeling these things about about this role that has been uplifted culturally as the ideal to some degree, and when we're like, well, it doesn't feel ideal To me right now. It feels hard. It feels self, losing identity, the identity loss, which you do. I mean, you address all these things, folks, I'm gonna just keep saying it, but go get this book. It's really worth it. Yeah. I mean, there's so much so, so some of those myths are there other ones that you want to kind of start our conversation with? Yeah.

Why She Wrote the Book

Vanessa Bennett: I mean, I think actually, how you just started that conversation is exactly the place we should start, which is why it's really like, well, I guess there's two things. It's the why, but it's also the feeling. So let's go to the feeling first. I think when I started writing this book, you know, I had another friend who was an author and who had written before me, and I remember kind of struggling at some point in the writing journey, which I think all authors do. I've lost the point. I've lost the mission. I'm kind of in the mud, you know, and she, I remember her saying to me, write the book that you wish you had, right? And so that's what I did. And what I realized during that kind of excavation process was there were a lot of books around these topics, but what I found is that very often they fell into one of two categories. So you had the category of books that were usually written by mental health professionals, and they talked a lot about the relational kind of impact, right? What happens when you have a child? They talk a lot about mothering and the impact on the self, but I found two things. One, they were very removed and kind of almost very impersonal. And I found that still, they put a lot of the onus on change, on the woman, on the mother. And that made me angry, not gonna lie. And then on the other side of the spectrum, I found a lot of books that were very helpful, that really tapped into that feeling of rage and anger, right? So, like Mom, rage being one of them, right? And they were profound, and they were eye opening, and they really got me up and got me going. But what I found was then they almost like, left me with this feeling of like, you've given me a hot potato, and I have nothing to pass it to, no one to pass it to. What do I do with this anger? Okay, now I know about this, and I'm kind of like, Fuck the patriarchy, but I'm like, What do I do now? You know, yeah,

Britta Bushnell: but I'm holding this freaking hot potato. Exactly. What am I supposed to do with that? Because I'm also

Vanessa Bennett: tangible, and I'm parenting young children, amen, and I can't just stop doing that right system.

Britta Bushnell: Take my hot potato. That doesn't work either.

Vanessa Bennett: No. So, you know, I kind of found myself navigating that too. And I was like, What if I could write something that kind of joined those two? And so this book was really meant to be about a few things. One was there's some science, there's some psychology. Let me inform you of that, but let me make it personal to me, so it's more relatable and maybe feels more digestible. And then let me bridge it with some myth and story, so then it feels less, you know, doom and gloom and more, how can we make meaning from this, right? And then give you actually stuff to do, right? In every chapter, I have these things called rituals and remedies that are like actual tangible takeaways for people. And even though I open the book and I say, you know, these are suggestions, you can use them, you can completely not use them. But something very common I hear back from people is you know what. What I loved about this book is that I felt like I could go on the journey with you, but I was also hearing from other people who kind of went through the same thing, and then I was given tools at the end of each chapter to actually start being like, Okay, I can do something with this. I can make this different. And so that's really what it stemmed from.

The Brick-by-Brick Approach to Change

Britta Bushnell: I mean, I think that's in line with what you said earlier about like the my hope isn't to give you all the bricks, but maybe this first brick, right? It's like, yeah, this may not be the cure all for your experience of of being a mother within patriarchy and all those pieces. And, and I appreciate that you mentioned, like, there's hope and goodness that can come from fatherhood too, that it's and and parenting like there's, you know, we're focusing here on motherhood because it's a specific experience. But yeah, your hope you spoke about. I love the word brick that you use. It's like what's that first brick? And maybe it builds and, or maybe this is the only brick you need, right, to shift enough, right, to make enough change in your experience of it to have it be more workable to have it feel better, whatever. So I'd love to know what that first brick might be. For some folks, what's, what's a first like? What does someone if they're like, Okay, I get it, motherhood is a myth. Great, we've named it. We put words to the feelings about how terrible that is. How do we start to actually, actually build into, or you use the word rebuilding, into Yeah, starting to rebuild a motherhood and a self, and having this exist together in a space that works for us.

Vanessa Bennett: I think for me, it always starts the same way with most people that I work with, and it's, it's actually quite simple. It's this question, and it's I'm hesitant to use the word fair, but fair enough, where do I have no agency and no ability to change it, and where do I have agency and ability to change it, and being honest about both of those? So you know where I live, there is no paid parental leave. That is just how it is here. I might petition my Congress people, but that is a reality. Okay? That just is. But I have a mother in law who would very much want to help me, if I could find it within myself to ask for help. Those are two very polar opposite things, right? Yes, I do not have paid parental leave. And that's a serious problem. There is no I shouldn't right? And I would like change in that system, but I do have help that I haven't asked for, right? So where do I have, where can I kind of divest my energy? Because there's nothing. It's like a waste. It's an energy leak. I can let it go. And where can I repurpose that energy into something that I can do something about, right? And so that's always where I start the work is actually not having them jumping head first into all of it. It's let's just look at the day to day. Let's just look at how you're currently navigating life, motherhood, parenting, relationship to self. Let's just look at that. And there's plenty in there that's going to give us stuff to work with that we can start with right? The brick laying process. And so I also think I'm somebody who went through my own kind of brick laying process, as I think we probably all do, and so now I'm able to kind of better see it. But when you're in it, Britta, and you're like, I'm so miserable. I hate my life. I've lost myself. I have two toddlers. I haven't had sex with my husband in a year. Yeah, you're like, Are you kidding me? Like, where do I start right like, when you're in that mud, you kind of get that tunnel vision and you lose sight. So I think it's actually just taking that question and asking it and saying, Okay, let me pick one piece to kind of pull out and hold up, what is this? And you know, one of the last exercises in my book, it's at the very end of the book, because it's one of the hardest, and it's going back to what you said right off the bat, which was, you know, there's this pervasive narrative that I'm supposed to put my children above everything else, right? I should be totally selfless, and I should sacrifice. And you know what? The truth is, when you have young children, there does have to be sacrifice. You do have to prioritize their needs. Often that is what is required in that period of their development. But the mistake that culture made was it told us, Oh, that just is unrelenting forever. Yeah, you just do that for the rest of your life. And in turn, you know, there's a really great quote that I talk about in my book, actually, it's in the book called good inside, which I recommend, which is kind of about like gentle parenting approach. And at one point in the book, this is the premise of the book, so I'm not spoiling anything, the author herself, her name's Beck. She says something to the effect of, you know, my child is good inside, and when they're acting terribly, they're not giving me a hard time. They're having a hard time. And that's why they behave that way. So it's reframing. And honestly, it's such it's really kind of elegant. I think it's so simplistically beautiful that our children are good inside and when they're struggling, they're not giving us a hard time. They're having a hard time. But then the exercise at the end of my book, the one of the last ones, is this question. Okay? The next question is, do you think you're good inside? Yeah, are you good inside? And when you're struggling or when you're burned out, or when you're screaming, or when you're yelling, are you having a hard time? Do you afford yourself that same grace and consideration that you so willingly do with your children? Because I find that that is often a huge gap. That is a really tough question for mothers. They'll Yes, they'll do it for their kids. They'll do it for their friends, for their partners, for their bosses, for everyone else, but they will not do it for themselves. And so that to me, is a huge, a huge thread to start pulling on. That's a huge brick to start with. Is that notion that you're good inside?

Britta Bushnell: That's so profound, right? And it's, it's this? I in the work that I do with couples, we talk a lot about, like, when we are bringing different cultural messages about what it means to be a partner or what a partner is supposed to be, and we need to have a conversation and negotiate those things, and we often have to break down. And you speak to this with in terms of sexuality, and you know, performance. I got a lot from that section. And I think we have to, I mean, it's, it's hard, and we have to be willing to break down these pervasive cultural messages and start to see them and really look at them, and then ask ourselves, is that what I want? What What's more nuanced, maybe than yes or no, like I might want part of that, but not all of it. Or actually, actually, I am okay with choosing all of it, and that's a choice I made consciously, right? Not just unconsciously imbibed from the zeitgeist, the messaging, but actually, okay, hold on. Like, here's the thing that I'm and then you're like, Did I actually even choose that? Like, hold on. Let me pull that out and like, is that really the thing? Or is that a product of programming? And is there something else that I'm choosing that's a little bit more self that maybe also includes what I want? But like, it's really hard to sort out. I think I mean, it's like muddy. It's really muddy,

Vanessa Bennett: super muddy. And also, I really love what you just said, which was, just because I'm willing to question it doesn't mean I have to throw it all out. Right? No, we have this very dichotomous way of thinking. We have this dichotomous mentality. So it's like, well, it has to be one way or the other. It can be both. I'm trying to actually just create critical, like, critical thinking, just thought, right? Like, what if, what if you just questioned it, you know, and that's the problem, is that most of these things, we are conditioned not to question them from that, like you said, from the unconscious, from the time we're very little and it's been passed down generations and generation and generation. But what if we could just have curious thought about it?

Britta Bushnell: And I think there are things that you you ask us to be curious about that are maybe harder for folks, like, you talk about, for example, abortion as a care and a maternal care. I can imagine there are listeners whose heads are exploding, and then there are listeners whose heads are just like, I have no idea why anybody would question that. Of course, it's health care. And so there's a and so there's a spectrum. And I appreciate that you don't just try to like, hang out in what's gonna be safe and comfortable for listeners, and that you're willing to address some of the harder you know, abortion and reproductive care, capitalism, sex and sexuality. I'm really glad that you don't just give us the fluffy, like, yay, let's just talk about what makes us feel good. It's this hard and and you make a place for grief and and a lot of the other pieces that are really painful. I you mentioned, like, you brought up your child just a minute ago. Let me use this as a segue. I was thinking about my child as you said that. But earlier, you just, you did bring up yourself as a mother and parenting and you tell a fair amount of your own story in the book, which I think really personalizes it and makes it relatable. What's one thing you've learned, just personally, through writing the book about becoming a mom or being a mom that you wish you'd known from the start?

Vanessa Bennett: I think it's that actually, the more I grow, the easier parenting is, and I know that may sound kind of like what are you talking about? But I find that, like as I actually do more work on me, selfishly on me, actually, parenting is just easier, less triggering. There's less less triggers. And so I actually think when I first became a mom, I thought becoming a mom meant it was about my children. And I was like, let me make sure that I'm doing right by them. And that's still true, but what I've learned that is also equally true is let me make sure I'm doing right by me, because parenting should not be that hard, you know. And I think, again, that one comes back to all those systems we've talked about, right of like, it is that hard if you're trying to do it on your own and you're you know, in the society that we've been told to kind of work like this, but actually, if you did it the way that humans have been doing it for ages, which is multiple caregivers and multiple people and multiple hands and all the things it probably it wouldn't be a cakewalk, but it would be far easier. And yet again, you you talked about right from the beginning, right if we look at all the research, when someone has a child, the more caregivers, the better, you know, both for the children and for the the parents, right? Like it is huge, like, it is quantifiable how big of an impact that is. And yet we've somehow moved away from that. And I think the other thing I had to really check myself on is this notion that because the culture that I was born in and that I live in and that is very much kind of ensconced in all of us is this notion of that perfection like Transcends like, if I can just get to perfection. And I had to remind myself, and this is probably some of my generational trauma stuff too, of what my husband will often say to me, which is they're five and seven, they will not remember this. It's going to be okay. And it's like, again, I come to him, and I'm like, What are they going to say about me in therapy? And he's like, they will have something to say about you in therapy. But the reality is, I did the same exact thing to my own mother, and she had, like, less resources than you have. And it's, it's this weird way of like, Oh, they're not going to remember this trip to the grocery store. You lost your patience. It is not that tragic. You know. And so I think I had to learn to kind of like, ease the pressure off myself.

Hope for the Future

Britta Bushnell: Yeah, but that's huge to be able to recognize that the pressure is there and then do some things to alleviate it, absolutely yeah, you I just want to come back to something you said in passing or earlier. And also I think it is a great chance for me to kind of ask this other one, which is, like, when you think about the future, and you think about what you're talking about in the book, where does your hope come from?

Vanessa Bennett: I think my hope comes in a few places. So the first, I would say, are the children that are being raised right now. I'm watching my daughter be raised, who, by the way, it's often very hard to parent her sometimes, and when I watch the way that she is being raised, and she is 100% not perfect, and she has tons of flaws, and many times I'm like, oh gosh, how am I going to work on that with her? You know, I mean, but in general, when I watch what and who and how she kind of comes at the world, she is a whole, whole lot braver than I was raised to be. She is whole lot louder in her voice than I ever had at that age. And I think I've just realized this, like, I'll never be able to give my daughter something that I don't that I haven't kind of given myself. But I can damn well make sure that she has enough of a foundation that she takes it from there and kind of runs with it. And I watch the children that I know right now in my life, and you know the parents that I work with and their children, and I go, Oh, that person's gonna be a badass, you know? And so I think that's one place where my hope comes from.

Britta Bushnell: I can relate to that very much so. Like, I will look at my child and my child is a lot like your daughter, from the sounds of it. And I'm like, I probably could not have raised this child because oh my God, the self work that has had to happen has been real, you know. And it's sort of like necessary. And it's lovely. And it's also, you know, sometimes teeth grating. I'm like, Can I just have a week where you just, you know, do what I say, would that be too much? Probably, yes, it would be, but nonetheless. And I look at that and I'm like, this is so important. This is like, this is the next generation. And I think to myself, like, what I appreciate is that it seems to me like my parent, your parenting, the parenting that so many, so many I work with are doing. This is not your parent, my parents parenting, you know, which is which is lovely. I mean, and we're, you know, still processing stuff from our parents. And, you know, I like, hold up my folks, they did such a great job, and there were so many things. And like, same, yeah, you do the best with what you have. But I also, I really, I like that you are like you get pride in your daughter. I get pride in my daughter for being like, I get to watch my daughter in the world. And I'm like, Damn, those are some skills that I did not have at that age. It gives me such hope for the world,

Vanessa Bennett: right? Your daughter? Sure, because when I watch her, I will jokingly say sometimes to my girlfriends who are my age, you know, man to to be raising a kid like as a former and still currently struggles people pleaser, to have a daughter who is just so unabashedly like, yeah, no, that doesn't work for me. I'm like, what? Any idea what would have me if I had said that? You know? So I she on the regular, inspires me, because, again, what we said earlier, you're never going to raise them in bubble wrap. You know, we all are imperfect humans, and we pass down imperfect qualities and traits. But damn, does this girl have a voice, and she is totally not afraid to use it. And so I think I need more of people like that in my life. It doesn't mean

Britta Bushnell: that that's super easy to parent all

Unknown Speaker: the time, very hard to parent. So there's

Britta Bushnell: added peace that we I want to give so much love and like hugs to all of you parents like you who are raising the next generation of badass women, because it it tests our parenting chops, like

The 4B Movement and Collective Change

Vanessa Bennett: self soothing, Right, and our and our inner parenting, like our self parenting chops, really, because so often it's like, and you're like, Whoa, whoa, regulate. That's a new thing, right? Yeah, on the regular. And then honestly, I would say that I find hope in some of the movements that were happening and that are still happening, like at the birth of this book, so like the 4b movement that's happening and still happening in Korea. My husband is Korean, so I'll tell you, I actually found out about the 4b movement from my mother in law long before it was on social media and people were talking about it because she was floored by what was happening. And just really quickly, for those who don't know the 4b movement, there's four words in Korean that all start with A, B, that essentially mean translate into marriage, relationships, children and ooh, I'm forgetting the fourth one. But basically what the movement is entailing is like, until these systems change, we will not participate in these four things, period, hard stop. And the way that I found out about this was because Korea news, my mother in law was listening to it. They had almost an entire first grade class across townships, across cities that didn't exist this last year. It was like two years ago, an entire class of first graders that needed to be kind of shuttered because it had secretly and quietly been going on for that long. So at that time, what? Six years as First graders?

Britta Bushnell: Oh, right, it didn't win. Got it got it bend.

Vanessa Bennett: They started going, what's going on? And then the women started coming out and saying, Well, here's what's been going on for the last six years. So I'm not necessarily saying that it has to always be such an extreme, but oh my god, am I just motivated by the fact that women across the world are being like, we're done with this. It's time to change it. And by the way, a lot of men, shoulder to shoulder with us, are saying the exact same thing.

Resources and Next Steps

Britta Bushnell: Because, as you said earlier, these systems oppress everybody, just everybody, but not not equally, but they in different ways. Everybody, yes, that's right, different ways. So what are resources or next steps for somebody who's been curious about what, what we've been talking about that you would say, Ah, I mean, you spoke about starting building your your building, brick by brick. What are some other, maybe resources for, for learning how to, how to build brick by by brick? Yeah.

Vanessa Bennett: I mean, I think obviously your podcast is one of them, right? My book, your book, it's like starting to kind of lean into what is bringing you that, like, feeling of aliveness, that kind of spark of like, oh, this is interesting. I need to read more about this, right? You know, obviously I'm always going to say therapy and coaching is huge if you don't have the financial means for that. There's things like, like, I have a private community that I keep very low cost for that reason, right? So you can come to group classes, group work, which, by the way, I am a huge proponent of group work, regardless of cost, because I always look at it as almost like the lighter fuel for the individual work. I'm a big fan. I've gone through 12 step myself through the codependency side. So there's that. There's Al Anon, right? Can be huge. Everybody, by the way, should go through Al Anon, not just people who do or do not have substances, because we're all codependent, every one of us. So doing some codependency work, I think, is a huge kind of jump off point. You know, there's lots of books around that. I mean, rip to melody, Beattie, but codependent no more. It's always a good resource. You know, I run codependency recovery groups, so I find things like that are ways to start unpacking and slowly start to be like, Oh, okay, what's my part? What can I own? And to look at that again, not as like shame. But as a way to, like, find some empowerment and like, oh, I actually have more agency. I have more control over this than I think I do. And sometimes that comes from, like, that kind of cold shower of like, oh shit, I've got some stuff to own and work on,

Britta Bushnell: which can be a great wake up, right? I think it's very necessary, very necessary. So where can folks learn more about you and your work. What are your your places?

Vanessa Bennett: My Places, yeah, my website, Vanessa bennett.com, everything is there? All the plates that I spin. I'm mostly on Instagram, although I do have a love hate relationship with with social media these days. Do as we all do, and that's at Vanessa s Bennett, and then just kind of across platforms, it's usually it's Vanessa Bennett. So I have a sub stack, I have a tick tock. I have a LinkedIn. I have all the things you know.

Closing Question

Britta Bushnell: Okay, so I like to end with one question, which is, what's one thing that you feel passionately about that you want new or expectant parents to see, hear, feel or know during this profound period of their lives.

Vanessa Bennett: You're not failing. It's not about you. The system was designed this way, and so what you're feeling is a completely normal response to a completely abnormal system. So if that can, that be the nugget that you then jump off from right? Oh, it's not me. Okay. Now. What do I do about it?

Britta Bushnell: I love that. So good. Oh, thank you so much, Vanessa for being here. I'm just super grateful. And thank you listeners for sharing this time with us. If something shared today impacted supported or moved you, please share this episode with a friend. I produce this podcast myself, and your support makes it possible to show a little love for the podcast and these conversations. Please follow, rate and review. If you'd like to continue the conversation, please join us on Instagram at transformed by birth. I look forward to being with you on the next episode of transformed by birth. And now let's gather what we want to take away from this episode on an inhale, and with our exhale, we'll blow out the candle until next time bye, friends and.